Why Dave Decided to talk to Joe and Matt:
Joe Fier & Matt Wolfe are the co-founders of Evergreen Profits and absolutely love showing people how simple it really is to get seen online in competitive industries. They share their system of driving targeted traffic that turns into leads and sales to business owners who want to scale (but have failed in the past). They aren't an agency (they're pretty much the anti-agency). Having generated over $100 million for themselves and their clients, Matt and Joe pride themselves on helping other business owners who want to be seen, and give great advice on affiliate marketing strategies and audience growth systems.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"People want to be talked to as a human, not an automated bot"
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Well everybody. Welcome back to funnel hack
Speaker 2: 00:18 radio. I'm your host, Dave Woodward. You guys are in for a treat today. I have opted to have two amazing podcast host as well as guys who are absolutely crushing it. So let me know just to you guys, Joe and Matt Wolfe. What can the show guys? Hey man, how you doing? Thanks for having us on. I'm so happy to have you guys. So these guys are the cohost of hustle and Flowchart, which is an amazing, amazing a podcast. They've got cool, cool guys on there. I just know she had Tom Breeze on a couple of other guys. I've noticed obviously Billie Jean and the whole list. I'm like, Gosh, these events. Read them. Know a lot of these guys. Good Friends of mine. So it's a mucks. The most important thing that I want to make sure those guys who are listening. The reason I wanted to have Joel and Matt on today is these guys are almost anti agency and I want to kind of address why would, why we bring up anti agencies.
Speaker 2: 01:06 The main specialty they really have is driving massive amounts of content. Also a of traffic, I'm sorry, using ads and content, podcasts being one of those content pieces, but one of the really cool things these days right now is they have this weird like super power of being able to be seen everywhere, but by the right people. Everyone these days talks about being seen everywhere. It really doesn't matter if you've seen everywhere, if no one cares about you, so we're going to talk today about is how to get seen everywhere by the right people, how to do affiliate marketing the right way, how to actually use ads, content traffic, so hold on tight guys. It's gonna be a fun podcast and super excited at both you guys on the show. This is our favorite topic is just kind of opening up some eyeballs to how traffic can actually be done effectively and not extensively and it's a super easy.
Speaker 2: 01:53 Once you get that foundation layer, well do I know that's one of the biggest things most people struggle with is this feels like to do traffic. I got to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. I never know which dollar really works and which one doesn't. It's kind of proverbial going back to the old branding days and you know, 50 percent is going to work. I just don't know which 50 percent it actually is. So with that, let's kind of dive right in guys. So tell me what, where do we start? How does, where do you want to take this thing? All right, so you know, probably the best way to approach this. I'll kind of give a quick breakdown of our traffic strategy and then you can kind of pick it apart if you want and we'll just dive deeper and deeper into it. So the way we drive traffic, is it sort of a combo of Google ads, Seo and facebook ads?
Speaker 2: 02:32 Um, so what we'll do is we'll create a piece of content around the problem that our product solves. So a blog post on our wordpress blog, we'll create a piece of content and we'll go to google and we'll find what people are searching for keywords around the content that our problem solves. We're not trying to sell them on that first touch. So for example, one of the examples I gave on a previous podcast was, um, let's say you have a home remedy for, okay. Um, somebody goes to Google and says a in, how do I cure heartburn at home? Right? Well, that person is looking for a solution to their problem. You put content in front of them with some tips on home remedies for heartburn. Now that they've used that content, they essentially raised their hand and said, look, we've got this issue. That's how we know that this problem is interested now, or this person is interested in what we have to offer.
Speaker 2: 03:23 Now what we're gonna do is we're going to retarget the heck out of them everywhere. So they're gonna start seeing our ads to our product offering on facebook, on Google display network, on youtube ads onto Bula. Uh, you name it. We've probably experimenting with retargeting on those places, so the key ideas use google search ads so that people are searching for the problems that they have, put content in front of them related to that problem and then just retarget them everywhere once they viewed that piece of content. So that's the sort of game plan in a nutshell that, that we operate under and we do it with both our own products and with affiliate products
Speaker 3: 03:56 in our podcast and our podcast. So I'm really curious because Seo is one of the things I just suck at. I've never done anything. You get this thing out. The whole idea as far as google content scares me. It's how do you, how do you really do this thing effectively without having to outsource all of it or do you outsource at all? So there's a combo. We do outsource a little bit. We actually hired some interns and have have a little team as well. We're lean and mean, so we're not a big company so. But it appears that we have this massive budget, which is really cool. It's only being shown to the right people. All these ads, so for Seo, we always use a yoast seo plugin for wordpress sites, so just the free version can do a lot for you if you just turn the all the lights inside the plugin green. I mean that's a good first step. I mean everyone should be doing this and we didn't focus on that for a very long time. We did that for about two months with all the previous existing posts and now what do you know? Organic traffic is the number one player for us. That's how we get most of our traffic. So the retargeting Seo while ast, is that right? Why O a s t a r y s t,
Speaker 2: 05:05 yeah, and if you're not familiar with that plugin and essentially what you do is you install it and then we write a new blog post. It says what keyword you're trying to rank for. You plug in that keyword and then we'll give you a whole bunch of suggestions of how to optimize that post so that it ranks for that keyword. So you just kind of follow the list. If you follow the list, there's a little light that starts out red saying you're not optimized. If you follow the list, the light turns green and you're now on
Speaker 3: 05:26 page optimized for Seo tools. I'd love to see. Yeah, I mean it's great for existing content. We're all sitting on a bunch of it, so let's optimize that and then you can go further with some new keywords. So how you guys didn't use that on your podcast
Speaker 2: 05:42 and cast. We specifically try to rank for our guest's name. That's kind of our big game plan with the podcast is anybody who comes on our show, we want to be on page one for that guest's name. We want our episode with them to be on page one so people will search for, let's say had dave Woodward on our show. They searched Dave Woodward. We're ranked number three probably below your site and you know, maybe click funnels and some of the stuff you're involved in, but ideally we show up on page one as, um, an interview with you that people are interested in. They click into our blog, they click deeper into our blog, defined other, you know, other things, and then based on what they look at on our blog, we then retarget them with offers. Awesome. So you're taking that podcast, make a transcript out of it as a blog article, taking that blog article using seo yoast and other tools to then rank for that
Speaker 3: 06:29 guess. Yeah, exactly. And we see it as a big segmentation tool. Any piece of content, no matter what you're producing, we just, she's podcast. It's easy for us. We have a system and it's multipurpose, you know, we can go across the web and upload a transcript to things like a medium, you know, or use that on medium.com. You can make them into slideshare, pdfs and then get traffic that way. So we're big into repurposing, but bringing it into our, bringing people into our ecosystem so we can let those retargeting pixels do their work.
Speaker 2: 06:58 Yeah, I love it. Well, I'm really curious on the affiliate side of things because this is one of the things that people are always bugging me about. You know, at first obviously you click phones, has our dream car award winning thing, so you get 40 percent recurring commission plus if you get to a hundred accounts on a monthly basis, you get $500 a month for your car twitter accounts, you get a thousand. So we've always got people saying, how do I get a car, how do I get a car, how do I get this money? And one of the things people I struggle with trying to help people understand is there's more to it than just taking our current links and blasted him everywhere. You are just magical at really creating content around affiliate offers. I want to spend some time on that. Sure.
Speaker 3: 07:37 Sounds good. Um, yeah, so we start with I guess our approach. We'll start there as we like to work with tools that we love and ones that we use in our own business so we can put our knowledge, our experience behind all the content that we create around that tool. So, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll usually also work with folks that we kind of know who probably have act like better the relationships we have with that affiliate offer, let's just say that helps the entire thing. So we'll start with creating content and we'll select probably the top five common objections and then from there, you know, that's where we can start pointing ads on Google for instance. And then, um, that's more or less our first touch from Google ads to a piece of content. And then from there we have pixels for Google, facebook, youtube, there's, I mean there's all sorts of different platforms you can retarget on. That's where we call it our cleanup crew. More or less, you didn't buy on the first touch. There's always a call to action inside the value giving a blog post there. But we know that it's gonna take multiple touches. So we feed the Pixel. That's what the guys like. Vince Reed, Billie Jean, all those guys, you mentioned a Tom Breeze, they're all big on feeding the pixel. I think that's the big thing. People have to get over it.
Speaker 2: 08:50 Don't go what that means because we hear that term feed the pigs all the time, but I don't people really understand what feed the pixel really needs. Yeah. So if you want to do retargeting, which is, you know, you, someone lands on your website once and now they're cookie cookie drops onto their browser. That's the pixel that you would grab from a facebook or Google ad platform. Uh, so that would be the pixel we're talking about there. And for retargeting you can build this audience. So the Pixel is essentially creating this new audience of visitors who are engaging with your content. So basically the idea is you put a piece of content in front of people, your pixels on there, anybody who views this piece of content is going to see our other ads. So we want to get as many eyeballs on this piece of content as possible so that more people see our other ads.
Speaker 2: 09:37 So that's essentially what feeding the pixel is so that our ads are being retargeted all over the place to more and more and more people. I love it. Super Cool. And I guess one little wrap a bow on that, a lot of folks try to get super targeted on, uh, the, you know, the platforms she feed the pixel, you're leveraging their algorithms and the, yeah, the rocket scientists that work at Google and facebook, let's leverage what they've done really well, feed that Pixel and let them do the hard work. Yeah, we'll follow up when it comes to advertising. We've actually kind of gotten in the habit of selecting less and less options inside of facebook and Google and letting facebook and Google optimize for us. So you know, we're going to start with some, some very broad like interest targets on facebook, you know, we may start with like digital marketing or something like that which has $20 million fans, but it's still pretty broad and then we won't set any other targeting and if you let it run for like a week or two overtime, facebook's going to start to figure out which of these people are converting and which aren't.
Speaker 2: 10:35 And they're going to start putting more of the right people in front of your ads. So I love that idea. That is super cool, so on the affiliate side, because affiliate marketing is one of the most can be a struggle for a lot of people because they have so many other people competing for the same type of words. Everything else. What are some of the key things you guys are doing? I know you guys, first of all said you take is find out what are the five objections or things about what else? I think there's a lot of ways with affiliate marketing that we go probably way above what most people are willing to do, which is why we've been so successful at it. Um, you know, real quick, I want to make sure we talked about that kind of success because you guys are just your normal affiliate marketers who are making a couple hundred thousand 100 bucks, a thousand bucks or even 100,000.
Speaker 2: 11:18 You guys are like seven figure affiliate award winning marketer. I mean, you guys totally get this thing right now. Eighty percent of our business affiliate marketing is our main income stream. We do sell courses and things, but affiliate marketing is our main revenue stream. Um, if you want to learn how we're doing it, that's what we have the courses for, but we make enough money doing what we do. So, um, so, so as far as affiliate marketing goes, there's so many things that we'll do. So, a, we always like to create a landing page so we're never going to send straight to our clickfunnels affiliate link. We're going to send them to some sort of a piece of content that maybe compares click funnels to other alternatives that are there, that explains the various ways we're using click funnels in our business, things like that. We're going to create a lot of content around click funnels and why you should want click funnels.
Speaker 2: 12:01 So that's where we're going to drive our Google ad traffic to. Um, another thing that we do is on our landing pages, we always put a little mini chat. I'm not sure if you're familiar with mini chat, but a little of course chat Bot that basically will allow people to communicate with you over facebook messenger. We put that on all of our, all of our pages everywhere across the Internet. So if somebody's interested in affiliate product and they have a question, they get access to me or joe or one of our two team members that are actually in mini chat fielding questions. So we'll actually get into mini chat and close sales over mini chat of products that we don't even own. Um, now I'm want to stop you there because this is one of the things that people screw things up with many chat is they've had this idea as far as it set it and forget it type of approach.
Speaker 2: 12:44 You guys are actually, that's one of the things I love about what you guys do. You guys actually using mini chat as live chat, which is something most people don't even consider. It's like, you know, I don't want to do that. I'm just going to set it up and let it run and whatever happens happens. So yeah, we used to use, which was kind of the same idea, a little button thing that said, hey, do you have any questions? They message us and then we'd go into the dark app and respond to people when the mini chat opened up the version where you can do the, essentially the same thing, but it goes to facebook messenger. We got rid of our can just put that on there instead. But yeah, I mean the first two messages are actual automated messages. Like, Hey, what do you need help with, you know, select one of these options that applies. They click one, maybe there's a link to like an Faq or a video or something. And then beyond that a real person jumps in and actually communicates.
Speaker 3: 13:32 And we have a whole system. So this is, I'm happy to bring this up because no one is doing this, not even for their own products. And we've had a, we just actually spoke to Mike mcalary of profit first and he bought a product from us and uh, and he noted he was like, you do better customer service than the actual product owners do affiliates doing this because of the follow up. And people want to be talked to like a human, not an automated Bot. People mainly think it's about talking to them. I'm like, no, no, no, no. This is joe here. This is Matt and I'll even do. We'll sometimes do loom videos where it's a customized screen capture maybe a minute or 200 percent of the time. Ninety eight percent of the time people are like, holy crap, you just took that time for me. Like personalized and by then you're pretty much close. They're telling everybody else about their experience. So it's super cool. Not very many chats. Amazing. You can do a lot, but flipping it to be pushed. Personalized and humanlike I think is the key. Um, so deeper down the, the affiliate funnel,
Speaker 2: 14:36 no, the list around every single product we promote. So we have a list of people that are interested in click funnels. We have a list of people that are interested in thrivecart and other tool. We promote pushcrew yeah, we do push crew notification. So when, whenever we want do a promotion, we send it out to our entire push crew lists. Um, I don't know. We actually have an affiliate marketing course. It's got 120 different ways to promote products as an affiliate and if you just did them all, I mean there's no reason you can't make six figures a month doing it. Okay, so stop right there and tell people where they can get that because I've known them. People are going to go crazy. So how do they actually get that course? So that would be the best places to go to evergreen profits.com/funnel hacker.
Speaker 2: 15:16 So you'll get a book actually, it's a little free book for the coastlines that all this traffic stuff and you'll have an opportunity to see the affiliate course and it's a piece of. It's a piece of a bigger funnel. We'll say that, which again, I want to make sure people understand. I think it's one thing I love about what you guys do is this I refer to is funnel stacking where they come in one funnel and they literally get stacked and layered and that layering is what allowed you guys to really crush seven figures as affiliates. Which is phenomenal. And I think too often people think that I'm going to create one funnel and it's just going to take care of everything for me. So explain kind of how your, how your funnel stacks work. Yeah. So everything is content based and we love to, you know, start with content and interest.
Speaker 2: 15:58 Kind of like what Matt was lining out with, uh, you know, we'll have either topics around a specific product or maybe it's podcast and our case and we use that content to segment folks into these different funnels. So these are all different followup sequences based off of the type of content they just consumed. So they'll have, will have an email follow up sequence. Pushcrew has its own kind of marketing, a mini chat has tags as well, so we have the opera and then obviously have the pixels, the different ad networks that are going to show irrelevant affiliate offer or maybe it's additional training and other podcasts we want people to listen to. So that's the idea is using content to kind of leverage where we want to take them. We're personally choosing to go based off of the content. And then as far as far as like the actual funnel elements, you know, I don't want to say this is easy to do, you know, it's kind of a simple concept, but it's not easy to set up everything we do.
Speaker 2: 16:53 So one of the things we do is we actually have a split test running all the time on all of our pages. So even when we're promoting affiliate products, let's say we have a landing page that promotes click funnels, I'm going to have two variations of my headline on that page going at any given time or two variations of our video explaining why you should get click funnels or two variations of the button. There is always, always 100 percent of the time I split tests running on both our landing pages and our various ads that we're running. So we're just optimizing, optimizing, optimizing. And I've just, I'm never satisfied. I've got some ads in Google where we're getting percent click through rates on them and I'm still trying to optimize them up into better click through rates. So that's awesome. Matt, go ahead. I was curious as far as when you're doing a split test, how, how often are you changing it?
Speaker 2: 17:39 Because the problem I run across people that say I'm going to split test. I do, they set it and they forget about it. It's like dude, you're not doing anything with that. So split testing, so use vwo visual website optimizer to run our split tests and I actually I check in on them once a week, but it really depends on the amount of traffic going to a landing page. Some of our offers get a lot more traffic than others. You know, we've got paged at some pages that will get up, you know, a thousand visits a day on them. So those ones I can legitimately optimize on a once a week basis. Some of them, you know, they'll get a thousand visitors a month so I'm actually, I'm checking on them once a week but I'm actually only going in and making a new variation once. I feel like I've got enough data to really justify a new variation.
Speaker 2: 18:20 So you know, so man, do you feel like a thousand is enough? Is that Kinda the magic number? It has got to be technically, I think if you were to talk to like a real hardcore conversion rate optimization guy, he would say that's not enough. Um, for me it's been working. It's been working. We're seeing incremental growth every month. So I'm, you know, I'm happy with the results we're getting out of it. That's the key thing that we had the Aha this year is I think as a business coach and said, okay, look at the little indicators that you have in your business, like conversion rate, uh, you know, traffic numbers, all of that. If you can increase those little bits, that little bits every week, I mean, just look at the compounded effort over 12 months and then look at where you're going to be over that span of time.
Speaker 2: 19:00 You will, I mean conservative things about tripling your revenue. Now, you know, if you're just slowly doing just that and then optimizing your ads as well in the same way. And it's not rocket science, you just have to have a really solid offer or multiple offers. And then just do these little small, monotonous tweaks that, you know, it's not starting something from scratch, but as entrepreneurs love doing, staying in your lane and going, oh yeah, that's been a big Aha for us is just the small incremental improvements week over week, over week, look at it over six months. And you went, wow, how did I get from there to here? So how do you guys deal with the whole shiny object syndrome? Because you guys are getting a ton of offers in front of you guys all the time.
Speaker 2: 19:41 The best people to ask on that. Matt had been in business together for like 12 years now, which is crazy. He's like my other brother I never had. So we have a similar brain. It's different, but this year I honestly, we, we hired a coach and he told us to stick with the plan for like a year minimum. And that's where I went into the optimizations. That's where we went into a very deliberate mood on what we're doing. Each week. We've even kind of cut down our work time because of just personal things we want to do rather than sitting behind a screen. So we'll, I'll say, I'll say the times, the most difficult thing that gives us shiny objects syndrome is we have a podcast as well, so over the last year and a half since we started this show, we've interviewed 112 people now and every single person has good ideas, so that's where our tiny object syndrome comes into play is we'll get off an episode with somebody and go test that and then like we'll talk to, you know, one of our mentors and they'll be like, no, stay the course, you know, verbally slap us.
Speaker 2: 20:40 A mentor works getting super clear on what we're doing now. And then what's the, what's the infinity project? James Schramko calls it like this thing and you're always kind of working on what your team is and that's worked for us. Yeah, no, I love Schramko's infinity project. It's a great, great analogy. He thinks he's a great guy. Yeah. So I'm really kind of curious as far as I'm sitting here going massive shiny object syndrome with a ton of affiliate stuff and going, okay, so evergreen.com four slash funnel hacker. I got to see who's going to go ahead and actually go through all 120 of those and put those in place so we can do. Let us know. We'll give you something cool. If you do that and prove that you've done them all, it'll be good. Yeah, I mean that's. That's the cool thing about affiliate marketing I guess that we want to.
Speaker 2: 21:29 It's a great bolt on. You don't have to just do affiliate marketing. Do you have a solid offer that you feel like you're still leaving some things out that you can then leverage someone else's offer product or service or even brokering a deal? We've done so many of those and that's the thing. It all compiles up into more profits based off of what you're already doing. So bolt on. I think that's a good little like, oh, that's it. One of the things you guys made mentioned, which I don't hear too many people talking about these days and that's Taboola. Do you wanna explain what to Bula is and how you guys were using it. So taboola is what's called a native advertising platform and essentially what it is is if you ever go to some of these bigger sites like CNN or Msnbc site, you read some news and you scroll down to the bottom of the news site, it'll say you know, also recommended and there'll be some little ads and usually they're very like click baity looking ads with the image.
Speaker 2: 22:21 You can't really make out what they're doing in the image. And they're like, you know, wait until you see what this guy did after he ate a pickle or whatever. And you're like, oh, I need to click on this. What is this? Right? So you see these on these big platforms, these new sites, and it's down at the bottom and they call it native advertising because it looks like it's native to the site. It looks like, like you're clicking on more internal content on the site, but when you click to it, it's, you know, an external site and the extent of what we've really experimented with is just purely retargeting because the idea being if they view a piece of content, we want them to see us in as many places as we can possibly put ourselves. So there'll be a piece of content. Maybe the content is around, you know, click funnels, here's all the way we use click funnels and now all of a sudden they're seeing our ads to our landing page about clickfunnels.
Speaker 2: 23:08 They'll see them at the bottom of an MSNBC page. They'll go to somebody's blog, they'll see it on Google display network, on the sidebar banner. They go to facebook, it will be in their feet. You know, it's just part of being everywhere. And so our budget for it isn't very big. We don't get just a ton of impressions on that. We might spend $7 in a month on it because it's a very low volume play, but it's part of that branding thing is part of that psychological thing. We're holy crap, I'm seeing these guys everywhere and that's what it does for us at least. I love that. A two bullets. One of the things we're starting to play around with ourselves. So I, again, I haven't heard too many people playing around with it says, cool, you guys are using it. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's, it's great for feeding the Pixel to um, you know, we tried to put some of our content, the same kind of content that if somebody searched google, they would see those blog posts. We tried to put that in some of the native ad platform stuff and put some like click baity links just to feed the pixel. And what we noticed was the time on site from those people was like three seconds long. And we're like, okay, these people are clearly not spending the time required to be a good prospect. So we actually cut out all cold traffic from taboola and just made it purely a retargeting play for us. But their dive back into it in the future, I'm sure we will. That's the key.
Speaker 3: 24:20 Just be on his men. If you have, you know, the access to all these platforms and can just do retargeting, why wouldn't you just place that Pixel on your site and let it do its work? Keep an eye on the budgets, you know, make sure you're not spending a boatload of money but, but the branding play, you know, it's what five to seven touches is the average. They always say, for someone to make a conversion, well might as well do it this way. That's how we choose it.
Speaker 2: 24:41 And I mean with the, with the risk of sounding like I'm kissing butt a little bit, something like click funnels makes it really easy because once you get something one of these funnels that works really well, there's a little button that says, clone your press that button and you do it all over again. Wonder how we do that landing page, that evergreen product. I love it. So obviously one of the things you guys are magicians ad is making sure that you're seen by everywhere, but most importantly by the right people everywhere. And I appreciate you guys spending time with the state as we kind of get close to wrapping things up here. Joe, Matt, anything else you guys want to leave with our audience? I think
Speaker 3: 25:16 the big thing is, is just the Aha is, is think about how you can bring all these platforms and let them work together. A lot of folks try to keep things. I'm a facebook guy, I'm a google guy. Well, why not be everything you know, and focus on your input where, where, where's the best input they could bring those qualified eyeballs to your ecosystem. And then, you know, let the magic happen with the platforms.
Speaker 2: 25:39 That's the big thing. I mean, you pretty much covered it. Um, you know, and, and we do the same thing with the podcast. We didn't really dive too deep into it, but with the podcasts, um, you know, that's the podcast could be huge. If anybody who's thinking about doing a podcast, I'm always blown away with the excuses. People don't, they give for not having a podcast because it's probably been the most impactful thing we've ever done in our business. But you can do what we call our invisible podcast funnel where essentially people listen to an episode and then once they listened to an episode of, let's say we had a, a creator of a software product on the podcast, we can interview that person than anybody who listened to that interview. All the sudden we can now retarget them with that person's. So it's just a real quick way to use and monetize a podcast through, you know, that that's essentially them raising their hand and saying, I'm interested in this because they just spent an hour with me, Joe and the creator of the product.
Speaker 2: 26:34 They're going to start seeing everywhere now. So take for example, you guys had me on, if you have me on your podcast, you didn't win target click funnels because we'd be talking about click funnels and everything else. And then you're going to have your affiliate link type to see all those ads that we send them to a landing page. We wouldn't, we'd never really linked straight to an affiliate link. We would send them to a landing page. That way we have the opportunity to, to, um, capture him on an email list and give some reasons why you should get it through our link and maybe offer up some bonuses and things like that. Uh, but yeah, that's exactly what we do. We would put our landing page for clickfunnels in front of anybody who listened to our episode together. Yep. Oh, such a cool idea.
Speaker 2: 27:12 We should probably do that. I'll probably do that. That sounds fun. Anything else guys? Again, thanks so much. Yeah, just everybody. Evergreen profits.com/funnel hacker. You can go down the rabbit hole and learn a little deeper and that's going to get something. This book right here, it's called, um, the evergreen traffic playbook. That's the book that will give away for free. We'll give you a free digital copy firstname.lastname@example.org slash funnel hacker. There you go. Awesome. So guys, again, check it out. Evergreen profits Dr. Com, forward slash funnel hacker. So again, evergreen profits.com, forward slash funnel hacker. They're kind enough to give you guys a free copy digital copy of the book. And most importantly, you then get a top into their funnels and see how you get retargeted literally all over the entire world online and take it down and follow exact what they're doing. So again guys, thank you so much. You guys are amazing. It's always fun talking to you guys. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 4: 28:11 Thank you. Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to the podcast. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me or I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get the next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and, and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if people would like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do that do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Why Dave Decided to talk to Alex:
Alex Charfen is co-founder and CEO of CHARFEN, a training, education and membership organization for entrepreneurs and small businesses. Alex has dedicated his life to answering the question, How do you make business grow? which evolved into a larger calling to understand How do you help people grow? Listen to Alex and Dave talk about Alex’s Billionaire Code and the 4 Rs of organizations to figure out exactly where you business currently stands and how to excel to the next level.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"When you make that transition from me to we, you have to change who you are as an entrepreneur."
"There is a difference between having a product and having a business."
"Your success is the sum of what you focus on."
"Your business is broken and if things go well, it always will be."
Other Tidbits: No business is perfect, you want a system and team that is adaptable. Embrass issues in your business and that’s how you grow.
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Everybody. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: 00:18 You guys. I seriously. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this podcast. This is a guy I have the hardest time getting. I see them all the time. We talk all the time, but to actually get enough time to have a focus for a podcast is next to impossible because he's literally building million and billion dollar brands. And with that I want to introduce and welcome back to the show Mr Alex Charfen. Alex, welcome. Thanks Dave. Great to be here with Humana. For those of you guys who don't know, Alex, it is. You're the honesty. I, I haven't. Rustled hasn't even been on more than once. So it actually, you're my first third time one. Actually, this is really cool and honestly I, for those of you guys don't know Alex, first of all, I'd recommend you go listen to the momentum podcast. I actually, the first time I met Alex was at genius network and I was so mad because he was giving out a limited supply of 500, literally numbered 500 of his entrepreneurial personality type books and it gave one to Russel and I'm like, dude, I am never going to get that.
Speaker 2: 01:17 Russell doesn't give out his books, so that was like a gone deal and unfortunately been able to get a copy, but this is a guy who is literally helped thousands of entrepreneurs and a ton of my personal dear friends get over some of the struggles they have is as an entrepreneur to actually build a business and I think the key here is helping people really understand what it means to really build a business instead of just having a product. Now I know I've been to a ton of talking, but one of the things we're going to dive right into it, I am so excited about and that is this whole concept of why, in fact, first of all, before we dive in, anything else you want to say about how amazing you are, Alex? No, Dave, I just,
Speaker 3: 01:51 I really appreciate you having me back on. You and I always have a lot of fun and I love the clickfunnels audience. It's like it's my favorite podcast audience if besides my own, and it's absolutely my favorite live audience, so I can't wait to speak in funnel hacking live this year.
Speaker 2: 02:06 I am so excited about tickets. You should buy tickets. Seriously. If you haven't bought a ticket, go to funnel hacking live right now and go buy your ticket. You should be there because if you're not, you're going to Miss Alex and this is. This is your third time. It's my third time, but I want everybody to understand. I've been to have been to three funnel hacking lives. I missed one because the tickets sold out, so don't be like me like I, you know, I spoke three years ago. I missed the next one because there were no tickets left. We always sell out. So get your tickets. Go to funnel hacking, live back on right now and get you buy your ticket. I'm one of the topics. Alto, the great thing that Alex, so you could literally talk about a ton of different things. He's one of our two comma club x coaches and people absolutely love everything he does.
Speaker 2: 02:51 He's a systems guy and understands people and more importantly what it takes to really build a business. And I think that's why I wanted to make sure I them on this time is we want to talk to you about this topic that has come up quite a bit recently and this whole idea as far as why you can't sell your way out. And with that I'm let Alex kind of talk a little about it and I'm going to come back and tell you a personal story here. But Alex, let's kind of. Let's dive more into this as far as why is it that you feel you can't sell your way out?
Speaker 3: 03:20 So Dave, I want to give a little background to this. So I, you know, I've been a part of a lot of different groups in masterminds and one of the groups that I was in awhile ago used to have this same like you can sell your or market your way out of any problem and every time they would say that to the people in the room, I'd get a pit in my stomach. I get physically uncomfortable because I know that that's absolutely not true. Now you can of a lot of problems, but if you have a delivery issue and you sell more, you're going to have a bigger problem. If you have a ton of leads and you don't have a good sales team, you're going to have an even bigger problem. And so there gets to this point where you have sales and marketing or how you launched the business.
Speaker 3: 04:01 Operations and processes and systems and putting the right people in the right place. The right communication in place and the right systems in place is how you really grow a company. And I think that's something that nobody really talks about because it's a lot of fun to talk about sales and marketing. But one of the reasons that I have so much respect for Russell is that he's building a real organization, a real team, and it's growing like crazy. And the reason is there's like 200 of you who are making click funnels grow and you know, if Russell early on had said, I'm just going to focus on nothing but marketing and not build the team, not build the organization to be anywhere near where you are today.
Speaker 2: 04:36 I appreciate that. I can say that is a lesson I had to learn the hard way. Uh, I've had a ton of different businesses over the years and, uh, one of those businesses I, I really thought because I had heard that saying that from the exact group that you mentioned, and I thought, you know what? I don't have a problem. As long as I can sell my way out, there's an I know I can market, I can sell, I will just, I'll just, I'll just put so much more massive action into this thing and I will solve every problem just by selling more and marketing more. And that in of itself will take care of everything. And what it ended up doing basically was land in the almost on the streets of the bankruptcy court because I had sold a whole bunch of stuff that I then couldn't fulfill on or I couldn't fulfill fast enough.
Speaker 2: 05:20 And then all of a sudden I started getting refund requests. I'm like, no, you can't read. You can't know that. Okay, if I'm going to get a refund, that means I've got to sell even more. I got to sell to replace the one I just lost plus get more money in. And it literally just became this downward spiral, which I know is kind of a weird topic for us to be talking about here when we're talking about funnels and everything else. But what I really want to make sure you guys understand is how important these systems really are. We were wrestling with in a couple of weeks ago, we were joking around about we sold our way real fast to 10 million. I mean, it was real quick and we actually did a pretty good job of even selling in the first two by the time we hit our end of our second year, our third year, we're at over $30 million and that was where we started realizing, you know, and we fortunately had, we had people in place but we didn't have systems and that was one of the big differences.
Speaker 2: 06:11 There's a huge difference between routine and having people in place and we were fortunate we have a very, very strong culture inside of our organization as well as a long with our customers. But the biggest problem we found is we didn't have the systems for those people. And again, we had always focused on hiring a players and we'd always focused on making sure that we had great people around us but the systems was, was our downfall. And that's again, when things you've talked so much about. So with that Alex, I want to kind of dive in more and help people understand what exactly. I mean this whole billionaire code you talked about. I remember the first time you laid this out to me, I just freaked out. I was like, oh my gosh, where's Alex? Ben? For the last 50 years in my life, I only heard about this and seen this because it, it literally applied specifically to every time I looked at all the business I've done over the years, every time I had one that didn't go well or had a problem with a partner, it was because of every single thing that was in your, in your code.
Speaker 2: 07:08 I mean, it literally. It was like crap if I'd only known that. So I had learned through the school of hard knocks. So in the next 15, 20 minutes I'm going to have alex as he poured his heart and soul out to you and basically give you as much as he can.
Speaker 3: 07:20 Yeah. And so, and here's, here's here. So first the billionaire code, the billionaire code is, is a matrix that shows the nine levels that it takes to go from zero to $100,000,000 and exactly what you should be focused on along the way. And today, you know when, when, if anybody who wants to can go to the billionaire code.com and you can download that Matrix, it'll show you exactly what it is. In fact, you can go to my podcast episode 180. There's 20 episodes, did spell out the entire billionaire code. And if you went to funnel hacking live, you can go watch the presentation from last year because I did. And what we all need to understand though, is as you ascend as an entrepreneur, once you get to around a million dollars, and this is why it's so important for this audience because right when you're hitting the two comma club, you make this massive transition as an entrepreneur from me to we like a lot of entrepreneurs can, can overclock it.
Speaker 3: 08:15 They can push themselves up to 2 million, 3 million, 4 million without a team. But it's tenuous and it's hard and it's difficult and it feels really precarious. And when you make that transition for me to change who you are as an entrepreneur, you know, I tell people that in order to grow the business you want, you have to become the person who can run it and if you don't have the business you want, you haven't become the person who can run it yet. And the major change there is making this transition from being an entrepreneur centric you, to actually building the team, building the organization. And for us, the way we coach it goes in three different places. It's putting the right people around you, doing the right things, recruiting the right members. It's using the right processes so that there's a process for everything in your business, including how you communicate and focusing on the right projects.
Speaker 3: 09:04 And the billionaire code gives you exactly what projects you should be focused on each level of development, but then you have these two levels level. Putting the right people in place and the right processes in place. And the biggest deficit in most entrepreneurial businesses is in the people department with process. Because here's what most people say when they work in an entrepreneurial business, we don't know where we're going. The strategy changes way too often and nobody communicates with us. So if you can solve that, your team knows where they're going and there's consistent communication. Your Business will explode. And like you've said, you know, we've taken even some members of like the inner circle who have had really fast growth businesses, but we add those things, three things, the right people, the right process, the right projects, and all of a sudden you've got a $10,000,000 business that goes to 50 million within like 10 months. So it's been cool. I honestly, I think one I can, we can talk about just recently I was literally just within the other day was and Ryan. Yeah, what an incredible difference. So I'll let you tell their story. You know that an ideal even. Well. So Brad and Brad and Ryan at Atlas. Well financial. So it's um. Oh Man. I always say I'm Brad's last name wrong. It's Brad and Ryan Lee.
Speaker 3: 10:20 Crap. I always want to say Brad Cobb, because I grew up with a kid named Brad cops. So anyway, right. And he noticed like, I've told him this every time I say your name, I say it wrong, but um, but they're phenomenal entrepreneurs. I love the two of them. And we started working with them about nine and a half months ago and when we first started talking they were considering doing something else. Getting out of the atlas was walking away from it because they couldn't figure out how to make it work. And we sat down, we structured a structure to a plan where they were going to put the right person in place. So they got, they went out and got an executive assistant and then we started really planning around how they were going to both act in the business, what they were going to do in the business.
Speaker 3: 10:58 And we created a forward looking strategy and they took that strategy and they went from about a $1,000,000 business to in about a nine and a half month period, a $3,000,000 business. Now they're well over $3 million. And they have some months where they're run rates over $4 million and I just had a call with those guys this week. They went from a two person team to a six person team there now in and now they're in the place where they're doing everything. They're now getting back out of the strategy there. They're moving, they're ascending again, going from one to three now they're going to go in and go from three to 10. But here's what's so important about this. The business that they had had that potential, it's just they didn't have the right people in the seats, the right processes in place, and they weren't focused on the right projects. We flipped that and immediately they go from one to 3 million and anybody who's listening who's in that two comma club range, it's crazy. If you've gotten there, you'd be blown away. What happens when you the right systems in place?
Speaker 2: 11:55 It's an honest. It's one of the things I've loved the most. I'm joking around just before he did the recording as far as an email, we had to send out some of our subcontractors and it was kind of funny just because, uh, I've looked at that, the success of, you know, one of the great things about our inner circle is russell is a genius when it comes to the sales and marketing piece and I've seen a lot of our inner circle members of that, a lot of success in doing that. And it's been interesting as they've worked with us as well to then see the system to get in place and it's. And it just takes it to the next level. And I think the best part, the part I like the most is once you have the system in place, that's when you can go back to the sales and marketing and you can totally pour the gas on it.
Speaker 2: 12:34 You know, when you do that, you. That's where you see that astronomical growth. And the hardest part for most of us as entrepreneurs is we get so focused just whatever our skill set is. And for me I'm a driver. I'm just always going to drive. I'm just going to push. I'm gonna push. I just believe I'll make something happen and I know even for Brad and Ryan, they were sales guys and financial services. You may have always in the financial service industries think I'm just going to sell, sell, sell, and they just get burned out. After awhile. You're like, I've been just busted my button and yeah, and money's coming in, but it's not growing. I think that's the part I want to make sure people, you guys are listening to this, understand there's a difference between having a product and having a business. You can start off selling a product which is great and it's one of the great things about click funnels is you can take that product and all of a sudden that product you can turn that.
Speaker 2: 13:22 I look at Natalie Hodson. I mean natalie had this crazy, crazy product that I hit the two comma club selling a $37 Ebook, which is just astronomical. I mean you got to be, you don't have it upsale, you don't just have a $37 ebook but you did it. But again, the cool thing for me is I take a look at where she's at now. It's because of the people she's brought in. It's because of the system against you could sell and she could mark it and she did an amazing job and she got to that level. But to get to that next level it requires the things you're talking about. And so Alex, if you don't mind, if you could help people. Let's take a step back. There's a lot of, you and I have talked a lot about this whole idea as far as one, three, seven, one meaning $100,000, 300,000, $70,000, million, $3 million, 7 million, 10 million, 30 million, 70 million, 100 million. And at each of those tiers it kind of fits it a little bit. Kind of along the lines of your billionaire code. Yeah. And as people are in those different levels, what if you could kind of target those people who right now are under 100,000 and tell them what they should focus on and then from those people who are in that $3 million and then the million above, you don't mind.
Speaker 3: 14:27 So if you're under 100,000, here's the biggest issue for most people that are under 100,000, you haven't decided who you're working with yet. You haven't gotten really clear on your market. I mean if you're just starting out, there's two things. It's one personal. Your personal skill sets, your habits, your routines, like are you as a human being ready to own a business? And for most people the answer is no, they're not doing the things that they need to do. They're not forward planning, they're not strategic planning, they're not clear on what really want. And then second, are you clear on who you want to serve? Once you get that covered from 100 to 300, it's how many leads can you generate? And can you lock in lead generation? Can you get that population coming towards you? Then from 300 to a million, it's building the system so that you can deliver and making sure you can deliver consistently and convert sales consistently and then from a million to three you have to not only build systems around what you do well, but then you have to build a team around what you do well and then now it gets interesting when you get to 3 million and you're going above three.
Speaker 3: 15:23 That's a transition where your ability to lead a team is almost exclusively what is going to help you move forward. For most entrepreneurs, and I think what happens is a lot of entrepreneurs get there and they don't realize you have to make a full transition from doing everything yourself to having the team do it with you and it's not just having the team do the things you don't want to do anymore. It's having a team do most of what you do well and that's why I gave the numbers don't lie. The numbers of the United States are crazy. Check this out. There's 29 million businesses in the United States under a 100,000, $22 million under a million 25 million. So when you are. Sorry, 26 million. So when you look at the population of businesses in the United States, 26 million are under $1,000,000 out of 29 million and so the numbers don't lie. Most entrepreneurs never get there. If you get over a million dollars, you're part of the three percent club. Three percent of businesses overall that are ever started getting to a million dollars or more. That's why clickfunnels is so crazy because the fact that click funnels isn't just like the fastest growing business I've ever observed and one of the craziest Unicorns that's ever out there, but it's a million dollar business factory. I don't think that's ever existed in the history of the world before.
Speaker 2: 16:41 No, we've again, it's because of people like you. It's because of a lot of. We have over right now. We were, in fact when you were in her office, we were kind of counting and as far as on the walls, the different plaques. So we're now just cross over 373, two comma club award winners and we just got our 27th application for eight figure awards and so you started adding all this up and I forget what the actual number was you and I came up with when you're in the office, but I mean it's literally billions of dollars a business that's been created and I think the part that I loved the most, especially as you take a look at your billionaire code, is the ability for a person who wants to move. And again, not all entrepreneurs do. They you get comfortable and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2: 17:25 But for a person who really wants to get to that next level, whether it's from 300,000 to $700 from a million to three or from 3 million to 10, for those who really want to do it, there are people like you who can help you actually make that kind of thing happen. And I think the part I'm most excited about as far as clickfunnels is we've been fortunate to attract people like you and others and who it. Because they're here, it's becoming this magnet magnetism of others who all of a sudden come to clickfunnels. And I was literally just buying a domain and the company I was buying the domain from my. Anytime I buy a domain, I never tell them who I am.
Speaker 2: 18:04 I've learned that you could ever get an email from j Levi Parker, that's kind of mine. Chris Brown. So it was funny because, um, we finally negotiated the terms and then his secretary was a big financial service company and they own this domain that we really wanted. And she finally says, now what's the email? And I told her the email. She goes, what's your name? I said, oh Dave. She goes, why is it j? Levi Parker? I'm like, Oh crap, I totally screwed that up. My name, here's my real name. And she goes, wait a second, hold on. And she puts me on the phone with the CEO who were buying the domain from. He goes, is this Dave Woodward from clickfunnels? I said, yeah. He goes, we love click funnels. And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm glad to know that now. But you'd probably charge more if you.
Speaker 2: 18:54 He asked me and I'm glad that we didn't find that out up front and they actually did ask for a free click funnel hacking live ticket and the negotiation. But uh, no. My only reason I'm saying that is I think it's interesting as you take a look, this was a financial services company and I never would've thought click on those would apply to them. But again, these guys they're doing that this year it'll be about 12 to $15 million and they're using a product and yet at the same time what has got them there is people and systems. And I think it's one of the greatest skill sets that you've offered to so many other people. And I want to make sure that people who are listening, you've mentioned already the billionaire code. So if you want to go to the billionaire code.com and download that, highly highly recommend it.
Speaker 2: 19:35 It's one of the greatest things out there as far as really the part I love most. Alex is in one sheet of seeing from zero to $100, million and little. You can find out where you're at and the part I like most about it is you could be, even though it's all columns, rows and columns, but all of a sudden you might be in one column but in a different role and you go, wait a second, I'm behind in these areas and you see where your weaknesses are and because that you're able to make those changes super fast. The other thing is if you didn't, if you haven't heard Alex's billionaire code, if you get a ticket funnel hacking live, you actually, we will send you the recordings from last year and I. It's one of my favorite presentations to be honest with you. I love anytime you speak, you have this unbelieve seeing you on stage.
Speaker 2: 20:18 As much as it's cool watching you here and we're doing this podcast, but seeing you on stage, it's a totally different element. You are. You just come alive and it's the coolest thing for me to see because you pour so much into the audience. I mean, you're, you were born to be on stage. It's the coolest thing ever because of the way in which you give and you care so much because you connect so much better with the people as you see them. It's just you have this personal relationship with them. It's really a neat thing. For me. I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a complete introvert, like in real life. But um, I learned very young how to speak
Speaker 3: 20:48 it. I love public speaking. It's one of my favorite things in the world. This is what you and Russell at the same, same exact way. Total introverts. You put you on stage and oh my gosh. It's like nobody believes I'm an introvert, but you know, I, I used to have a debilitating stutter. I had. So for anybody listening who's like, oh, I don't think I could ever speak on stage a lot. Younger English was my second language. So I had a crazy accent that I used to get made fun of for in school. I used to stutter because I was really, I had a hard time talking in front of people. I'm dyslexic, so if I ever had to read in public, it was really hard. It sounded like I didn't know how to read, but it was just the words were moving around on the page and um, you know, I, I learned how to speak in high school with my speech coach and getting the opportunity to speak on a stage like click funnels, funnel hacking live.
Speaker 3: 21:38 It's crazy. There's so much energy in that room when you say you build a relationship with the audience in that room, they build a relationship with you. Well, thank you. Love 5,000 people that are dying to have a relationship with you, Alex. so one thing I'd want to make sure we touch on, and I think because it applies to anybody, no matter where they are in your billionaire code and that is your time study. Yeah. Kind of going into that real quick. Only because I was the worst person in the world on that and I hate this, but it's a life changer. So this is, you know, I've been a consultant for over 20 years and I use strategies that work and it doesn't matter how difficult they are, it doesn't matter how confronting they are. To me, it's how do we get the biggest result with the least amount of time and one of the things that we, we inventory as entrepreneurs is money.
Speaker 3: 22:22 We all like we look at how much money we're making but we don't really look at what we're doing with our time. And so how do you inventory your time, take that data and improve what you're doing with your time. Because at the end of the day, your success is the sum of what you focus on. And until you can inventory where your focus is, you don't know what's really going on. So what we have people do in our programs and in our company like Haley right now, my assistant is doing it, two wait time study. She writes everything down that she's doing in 15 minutes and then commence. And anybody can do this. You write it down in 15 minute increments for two weeks. And what will happen is in the first couple of days, you'll already start modifying your behavior, but at the end of two weeks, right at the end of two weeks, you'll have a full inventory of where you spent your time for a two week period.
Speaker 3: 23:07 And then here's what we have people do. Go through that inventory and mark, was it strategic or tactical? And as an entrepreneur, the more time you spend in strategy versus tactics, the more you're going to grow your business. And most entrepreneurs are over 90 percent tactical in any given week. And for me like this podcast with you, this is strategy. This is strategic. I'm the only one in the business that I would want to have do this. But setting up the time for the podcast, setting up the appointment, put it into the calendar, all those things. Somebody else did all of that for me. I just showed up and click the button. And so at the end of a two week time study, you really know where you are. And I think, you know, I, I often share with people your story that we were talking and you were asking me for strategies and then I shared the time studying and you're like, okay, I'm going to do that. And then two days later I get a voicemail where you're like, I just want you to know I kind of hate you.
Speaker 2: 23:58 I totally, I really do that. Oh yeah. And I think the other part I do want you to talk about, and that's the four rs I'm going through right now and I'm creating for ours, for my, my role here at click funnels. And it's been fascinating for me as I've been doing this. As I look at the four rs with my time study, it totally changing the game because I'm like, oh my gosh. Even though that is what I'm classified with, strategy, I don't need to be the person doing that strategic thing and I can have someone else do it. Which was kind of, it was mine. Again, I'm still struck. I haven't completed my forearms right now. I'll have it done by tomorrow, but it's been fascinating for me to see that a lot of things that I thought I still needed to be doing, I don't. So if you don't mind, can you explain what the four r's are? Absolutely days. So, um, you know,
Speaker 3: 24:49 in most positions in the world do you have a job description and a job description is usually like one or two paragraphs describing what somebody does in a role in our organization and the organizations we coach, we found one or two paragraphs woefully inadequate. And what we want to be able to do is give somebody a very clear idea of exactly what we want from the person. So whether you're recruiting or managing a team member, we use what we call a four r document, its role. That's where most job descriptions start. Stop. So we have a paragraph about the role, then we have responsibilities. What are the exact responsibilities that that person has? Then the results, what results is that person driving? And then the last thing is the requirements. And so for example, for a salesperson, you might have a rule that says, you know, this is an inside salesperson, they're going to be available full time, remote remotely located, they're going to call it on high ticket clients, and then in the responsibilities it's making 100 calls a week, having this level of conversions, this is how many actual live calls they have to have, and then in results it's driving x number of dollars in business a week and then you know exactly what the results that they should have the right client bringing in the right Avatar, making sure that there's not a high return rates, high retention rate, and then the last thing in requirements for sales might be excellent phone communication skills, excellent written skills.
Speaker 3: 26:10 And so once you have that all built out, if you're recruiting, you are so likely to find the right person because it's very clear. And then this is the only document that we know of that you can take from recruiting right into the position.
Speaker 2: 26:24 So it becomes a tool you find them with and you lead them with. I think that's the part you just said there. I for me has been the part I've enjoyed the most because I'm actually the people who work for me now I'm asking them to create their four r document and it has been so mind opening for not only for me because they're doing some things on there that that's not part of their role or the responsibilities and and other things that I thought they knew where their responsibilities don't even show up anywhere on, on the document.
Speaker 2: 26:56 So again, anyone who's listening, if you have somebody who is works for you, and again, I think even if it's you're an assistant, it doesn't matter who it is. Impact. Yeah. I think you're crazy. These days. I, I fight all structure. I just innate in me to fight it. I just ate it, but it's been for me. The thing that has helped me the most is working with people like yourself, Alex. I'm like, okay, I gotta get into this thing and I have to realize that the structure actually is what's going to help me get to the next level. I mean, we'll do $100 million this year and you and I had the conversation earlier as far as, you know, Dave, who do you want to be and where do you want to lead? And for me, I know there's no way I can lead or be involved in a company that had $100,000,000 level unless I change who I am. And it kind of goes back to the, you know, the proverbial thing people have got you here will never get you there or at least the situations you're in, you have to change. And for me the best way of changing has been this for our document. It's been a great, great opportunity. Do you have any resources where people can go to get that or understand a better? Um, you know,
Speaker 3: 28:02 we, we teach that in all of our programs. So if you go to a billionaire code.com or if you download the entrepreneurial, not download, sorry, if you buy a free plus shipping copy of the entrepreneurial personality type book, um, we will, we'll, we'll give you in our follow up sequence. We talk about where the for our documents are, where, where we, where we have all these resources. In fact if somebody wants to, they can go to free momentum book dot Com and get that. And by the way, I now have a funnel there that were, that I'm willing to share on funnel hacker radio because last year when I spoke at funnel hacking live, real funnels weren't quite there yet, but now we're very proud of the funnels were putting out. Um, we've got some pretty incredible click funnels now.
Speaker 2: 28:43 Well, I think the coolest thing is the fact that, uh, if you haven't listened to Alex's podcast, a highly, highly recommend that you do as far as the momentum podcast, he actually, I have to give Kudos to him. He hit the, he got to the million dollar or the million downloads level faster than I have. I'm not there yet, so please support me and get me to the millions so I can come back and to be like, one point three, one, I'm, I think I'm around 900,000 and you started six months after me on a podcast and you're doing it like every day though. I mean I've got like 300, 85, 400. It's crazy. So it's just sheer volume.
Speaker 2: 29:20 That's a lot of content, but the coolest thing honestly is I highly recommend you guys go check out the momentum podcast. It's what Alex contributes and gives is just amazing things for any entrepreneur to really help. And what I love is they're short the quick and it's stuff that people can implement that day and I think that's the, that's the secret. Does fast implementation. So again, we've talked about the whole idea as far as why you cannot, why can't sell your way out of your problems. Talk About for our document talking about time studies. Anything else you want to make sure we cover here in a few minutes before I let you get back to your day?
Speaker 3: 29:55 Uh, you know, Dave, I think, I think we've pretty much covered it. You know, I have this saying that I share with business owners, your business is broken and if things go well, it always will be. And here's what I mean by that. You know, volume creates complexity and success creates deficits. And so as a business owner, you don't want a perfect business. What you want is you want a system and a team and a structure that is adaptable and can cover complexity and filling deficits. And I think that there's far too many business owners today, they think that some day they're not gonna have any problems. I would look at it differently. I wouldn't tell you all embrace the issues in your business, chase them down, hunt them down, solve them. And that's how you really grow a company by pretending like there aren't issues by, by wanting to perfect business, by trying to drive the problems out of your business, you're actually creating the biggest constraint you possibly can. So just remember, success creates deficits and volume creates complexity. What you want a team is a team and an organization that can cover both and you'll get to the level you want to as an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: 30:58 I love it. So everyone check out billionaire code.com. Make sure you follow Alex on his momentum podcast and by all means, if you have not bought a ticket to funnel hacking live, go there right now. Buy Your ticket. You do not want to Miss Alex on stage. This guy literally gives his whole heart and soul to anybody he comes in contact with. So the great thing about actually being with Alex at funnel hacking live is you're one of the most approachable people in the world, which is just, I mean, it's such an amazing thing for me to see how willing you are to give and share during the full three days, not just the time you're on stage, but as people I've seen you in the hall talking to people and you just give and give and you give and you give. So the only way you get that is by going to funnel hacking live.com. Spend time with Alex. it will literally bless your life. He's always blessed mine and it's been an honor to spend time with he and his wife and his two daughters. It's always fun. So Alex, Ian, thank you a ton. Any parting words here before we go
Speaker 3: 31:49 now just say how your family for me, you're a constant source of inspiration and I love you man and I appreciate you having me on three. Pete. Now
Speaker 2: 31:59 one. Thanks so much. I think so. I think someone trademark that. It's A. I probably owe some money on three people. We'll talk to you. Bye.
Speaker 4: 32:12 Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me. We're trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get the next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic there's you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if people would like me to interview. I'm more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Why Dave Decided to talk to Pete:
Pete Vargas is an entrepreneur who helps people grow their businesses and spread their message through stages. He is the founder and CEO of Advance Your Reach, an organization with a shared vision of impacting 1 billion people across 7 spheres of influence. Since 2003, he and his team have booked over 25,000 stages worldwide–and generated tens of millions of dollars of revenue through those stages.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"Facts tell and stories sell."
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Everybody. Welcome back to [inaudible]
Speaker 2: 00:18 radio. I am your host Dave Woodward and I am so, so excited. I've got a dear friend of mine I want to bring on and the reason I want to bring him on his. I was actually out at his event and while I was there and I rarely paid to go to people's events anymore these days, but this one we actually paid to go to because of the value that I wanted to make sure we got from him and while I was out there at his event, I wanted to make sure that I had him on my podcast so he could share the same types of things with you and give you the opportunity to actually get involved with something like this. So without any further delays here, I want to bring on a dear friend of mine, Mr Pete Vargas. Welcome to show bud. Hey Man, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2: 00:56 Thank you for having me. I'm stoked and just absolutely love you man. Well, I am so excited. Again, for those of you guys just don't know Pete. He's got a company called advance your reach. It's actually why we went out. A lot of you guys have heard. We actually are in the process of starting our own speaking team and even though Russell spoken on literally hundreds of stages and we've done literally thousands of Webinars, I was, we started looking at trying to systematize actual speaking and using, speaking to build our business. I thought there was no one better that I could bring on than Pe. So I flew myself and Chris who runs Chris now runs our, uh, our speaking team, flew him and myself and miles out to Colorado to spend three days with Pete and his team to learn really about how do you land stages, how can you use stages in your business, how can you actually use a stage to build your business by providing massive value and really you state using.
Speaker 2: 01:47 For us, we're looking at using stages to scale and I know for a lot of you guys who are in the situation or listening to podcasts, some of you are sitting there going, I don't know. I haven't even. I've never done a stage presentation. How would I do that? Pete's going to answer that for you today. For those of you guys who were in Russell situation where you sit there going, the last thing I want to do is actually get on more stages. He's going to tell you how you can actually create a speaker team like what we're doing and do the exact same thing. Again, I'm you guys don't want to hear from me. What you really want to hear from is my friend who I'm so excited to have on the show. Again, Mr Pete Bargas. So Pete, let's kind of talk about what you refer to now as this one, our launch.
Speaker 2: 02:19 What the heck is a one hour lunch? Yeah, so let me just tell you that one. Our launch, we're the one hour launched was birthed for me, like that's an important piece to understand. I, as you know, as a youth pastor and I brought speakers in because I didn't want to speak on the stage and so I brought these speakers in and I remember showed up my first Wednesday night. There were three kids there and I thought, how am I going to grow my youth ministry, which is going to be equivalent to how you're going to grow your business. And so what we did, Dave, is I brought in speakers and in one hour I saw my kids get so moved and inspired that they, the youth group just continued to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. We went from three kids to 750 kids in a town of 12,000 from bringing in over 30 over the course
Speaker 3: 03:00 of four years. And our youth group just grew. And I saw the magic in one hour on a stage and the action that my kids took. One of those speakers, as you know, his daughter was the first girl killed at Columbine in 99. And he came and spoke and he came and he said, you know, there's five people that you need to let them know how much you love them because you don't know how long they're going to be here on earth with you. And I couldn't help but think any said some of them you're not in good standings with. So he, I couldn't help but think about my dad. I hated my dad because of what he had done to me. And so growing up as a kid. So that night I begged my dad to come back to the 90 defense and all of a sudden at the night event, my dad came back.
Speaker 3: 03:39 He heard the speaker speak. We had tried for a decade. Everything, counseling church, his siblings constantly saying, you got to make things right with your son. And in one hour on a stage, one hour on a stage, it prompted my dad to write me a letter and say, I'm sorry for the father up then here my son is having an impact on hundreds of kids lives and I can have an impact on my only son's life. And he asked me for a second chance to do things right. I called that man, now this is important for the list because I said, dude, you did something in one hour that nothing could happen that put my head in the last decade wouldn't happen for my dad, which is a lot like our business. We tried so many things that don't work or they take forever to work and in one hour things can change as you get on a stage.
Speaker 3: 04:23 So I called him and I said, why aren't you getting this out there to everybody? He's like, I'm trying this, I'm trying this. I'm trying this, who's trying a lot of things? And I'm like, get on a stage with your ideal clients in the crowd for one hour and watch what begins to happen. I don't know what the listeners, ideal crowd, they know who it is, but his ideal crowd was principals and superintendents. That's what his ideal crowd was because they were the decision makers who controlled the budgets. So the very first stage I put them on, I was like, Ooh, I hope this works. And because I figured out how do I land this stage, how do I make him great on the stage and how do I make sure that this is one of the biggest customer acquisition channels that exist because that's where he's going to change their lives.
Speaker 3: 05:03 So I got to my first stage, I worked my system back in 2003. I've been working at cents 500 educators in the room. We couldn't make an offer. Five hundred educators in our later 450 of them were turning in a physical piece of paper, what we call a contact card because we lead collected by giving away a free gift for 150 are turning in papers. And in the next two weeks, 70 to 80 new clients paying three to $5,000, just shy of a quarter of a million dollars in one hour in the last year, struggling with everything in this business. He had done $52,000 in the last year. Now here's what happened with him and it's very much like Russell, very, very much like Russell. He started getting big. It started being recognized in the educational system and he couldn't be that, so a lot of you out there solo preneurs or if it's just you on your team and you're trying to really be like, what could I do it start with stages like Russell built click funnels with being on Webinars, you know, he did webinars, there's offline and there's online stages, but here's what happened with them and what's happened with Russell's.
Speaker 3: 06:09 He got too busy and he couldn't be on all of the stages that we're requesting for him. So what did we do? We created a presentation that duplicated past him. We told the stories to company's story on the front end. We talked about the content. Everybody shared the same content in the middle, but at the beginning of the presentation we mentioned the company story and then how the company's story connected to the speaker and then the rest of the presentation was the same for every single one of those speakers. Dave, before it was all said and done, not only did he grow the organization from $50,000 to $7 million in the educational system, which might not sound like a lot on an annual basis, but they don't have budgets.
Speaker 2: 06:49 That's huge. It's huge.
Speaker 3: 06:51 Fifty two speakers out in any given year, sharing one presentation for one hour driving business, so whether it's somebody who wants to do it on their own and go to attract more customers, or if you're like, man, I'm like Darryl and Russell and I don't want to be on the road anymore. I get too many requests. Then build a team of people that can go do it, but here's what stages does it expedites the sales cycle in 60 minutes. A lot of people, it might take them six, nine, 12 months to consume 60 minutes of content online, but when you've got a captive audience, it's called the one our launch because you've got their undivided attention for 60 minutes and we know what can happen when you get on a stage for 60 minutes.
Speaker 2: 07:33 I love it and I think people part I love the most is for one, your passion behind this. I get chills. I've heard you tell that story. I think six different times that I can think of about you and your dad and I get chills every single time because you have this ability to put yourself back in that actual moment to actually experience and have the person who's listening to you experienced the same feelings, the same raw emotions that you were going through right then and it's such a skill set that I think too often a lot of us getting this idea as far as you start telling instead of of of actually sharing and telling stories and as you know, you don't have joked all the time as far as you know, facts tell and stories sell and you're a. You are the master at when it comes to actually getting stories that have impact for people to then use those stories in their, in their presentation to connect with people.
Speaker 2: 08:23 And that's one of the things I love and I was out there to readmit learning from you and just seeing the way that you are so good at connecting with people beat. The one thing I know that a lot of our listeners, they've heard about this whole perfect webinar script from Russell for forever. And so we've talked a lot about webinars. The one part I want to, if you don't mind kind of address is this idea as far as how you made mention that they were able to delete, collect meaning collect when you typically couldn't sell. Most everyone I know when they think of going to speak on stage, it's a 50 slash 50 split. This is one of the things you kept slapping me in the face. And Dave, hey wait, there's
Speaker 3: 08:56 more, there's more. You actually can make more money not selling directly on stage. So if you don't mind kind of explore and explain to people how they actually can use that to build their business when they can't sell. So when you can't sell, there's two things that you're either in your presentation, your co, the we have, uh, we believe in your presentation that you start with the heart and you connect with people you teach and while you're teaching, you're embedding and you're sharing case studies and you're doing all of that. You're basically selling during the year, but you're teaching, you're teaching. But then in the call to action, the only difference between when you can sell and you can't sell as you're either collecting order forms, you're collecting leads when you can sell your collecting order forms. And that's the speak to sell world. And it's only one of four types of stages that you get.
Speaker 3: 09:39 Five types of stages that you can get on the speak to sell world. When you can't sell, you're collecting contact information by giving away a free gift. You give a free gift the way that gets them from a to B, not a to z because nobody's gonna read your book and nobody's gonna go look at your slides, but they will consume a piece of content for 10 minutes that will move them from a to b and when they see that piece of content that moves them from a to B, how to get a date in the next week, how to rent your house and save $10,000 a year, how to go when your first stage in 24 hours and they get that a to b all of a sudden how to build a funnel and in in one day or 10 minutes, you know when they get that a to b, they're like, oh my God, that's his or her aid to be what is going to be there a to Z. Guess who the A to z is here, the ADC and so after that free event, you're following up for 10 to 15 days with automation, with click funnels and you will begin to see sales close.
Speaker 3: 10:39 If it's a low ticket item, it's all automated. If it's a high ticket item, it's phone calls and one of the things that I get the biggest compliment for today on three different interviews, they said, Pete, you opened our eyes to the fact that I can't believe I never thought I could use a stage to sell an eight, 15 or $25,000 product. And then I saw you do it. I just did it at Jj Virgin's event. We couldn't sell in our first session date. We had a hundred and 10 people in the room. We gave free gift away. We did strategy sessions on site. We did 105 strategy sessions out of 110 people in the room and we saw 40 of them go deeper with us and then in the next two weeks we saw another doesn't go deeper with us. After that, you know, another 10 or 12 go deeper with us after that.
Speaker 3: 11:29 That's an unbelievable stage. And guess what, there's no splits. You know, there's no splits and that's the beautiful thing. And so I love the five types of stages. Yes, you can get paid when you get paid your lead collecting. Yes. You can do free events when you do free. Eventually collecting. Yes. You can do speak to sell. When you're doing speak to sell, there's a 50 slash 50, 60 slash 40 type of split. Yes. You can sponsored stages where you pay a fee and you get to keep 100 percent of your money or you're like click funnels, and I love this. How they built click funnels is by doing their own stages. They did, I don't know how many webinars in the first year to launch this baby, but they did their own stages and so that's the powers you. There's four of those that you can be on other people's stages and one of them is your own stage stage.
Speaker 2: 12:18 I love your passion. I love how good you are, what you do, and I think the part I. I had so much fun when we're together at your, at your event, was really diving deep into all four of those. Again, human, it's we. We've done a ton as far as webinars and we've really spent a lot of time on the 50 slash 50 side, but it was the other sides that I was fascinated about, especially as we start building out a speaker team is this ability to to land stages where we may be sponsoring or were there actually is free, which I'm still. I still need to hire you more on that so we'll work out the details of that later, but for me that the real benefit is to really understand how large the opportunity is. I think too often a lot of us in the online funnel world, we think of just webinars or or being at an event and just speaking and splitting it 50 slash 50.
Speaker 2: 13:05 There's such a much more broad opportunity out there and it's really why I wanted to have you on this podcast is to help people understand you're missing the boat. There's so much more opportunity. It's really why, again, pizza whole idea as far as this one, our launch formula or a workshop is set up for that one reason to really allow people the opportunity saying, listen, you actually can build your business in multiple ways besides just webinars and and a typical 50 slash 50 type of a Jv partnership type of thing. So if you don't mind, I know we've just got a few more minutes here. What are some of the things? First of all, I want to make sure people understand how they can get this. So what are they going to get? How do they get it? Where do they go? Yeah, so I'd encourage people.
Speaker 3: 13:44 Well, the goal was to one our launch workshops, spell one out o n e one our launch workshop.com, and we're going to show you how to actually use stages and to grow your business. We're going to show you what to do on the stage. Most importantly, we're going to show you how to get on this. Actually not most importantly, that's the easy part. How do you get on the stage and most importantly, how do you attract customers from those stages? Because Zig Ziglar said, I've never changed someone's life with a speaking Gig, but sometimes they buy my tapes and cassettes and I got a shot at changing their lives. What? Zig understood because the data showed him the data. Meaning his son told me a couple of weeks ago, Pete that had data to prove that dad knew that stages didn't change their lives because out of every hundred testimonies that came in, only one of them was about him impacting them on the stage.
Speaker 3: 14:33 Ninety nine of them were about the products and services that they invested in him with. So that's why we want stages because in one hour to expedite it exponentially exponentially expedites the sales cycle. And so the last part of what we're going to be teaching people is how to actually create customers in all of these different types of stages exist. And so we're giving away thousands access to thousands of stages and we'll be interviewing over 30 meeting planners who control thousands of stages all across the world. So you understand what they think as they're hiring speakers, so that's the one, our launch workshop.com that we're going to be doing the next couple of weeks and I'm really excited about a day, but you asked a good question. You said, what? What is this opportunity with stages in you have you have this opportunity? There's this, there's this pyramid that you can say, I either want to go do on other people's stages or I want to do my own stages.
Speaker 3: 15:25 Both are right. The answer is both are right, but what you're doing other people's or your own. There are eight different offline stages that exist in eight different online stages that exist and if you can just begin to build a portfolio of one, two, or three of the offline and one, two, or three of the online, it becomes powerful. And the thing is people in the Internet marketing space typically only know about a few of those like the speak to sell once, but there's associations, there's a huge association stages. There's seminar stages, there's local stages, there's end user stages, there's media stages, there's masterminds, there's eight different offline stages, and then there's eight different online stages. There's webinars, there's trainings, there's online media, there's podcasts, there's summit's, there's all of these stages that exist and what we basically are showing you how to do is how do you go get on other people's stages and I'll tell you the key is when they realize that you can solve a problem for their community, they'll open it up for you to be on their stage.
Speaker 3: 16:27 Dasia dates, letting me do a round table at clip, at funnel hacking live because he knows I'll provide value because he's seen me and what I provide and so there's this opportunity. J Dave have stages that exist everywhere and the big thing that will get really clear on the in the, in the, in this launch workshop is what's your stage portfolio? Because for Russell it's two to three offline stages a year and that's it. But for the speaking team, it's hundreds of stages for them. You know, for me this year it was 17 to 18 offline stages and I did 125 online stages, kind of like Russell did they get click funnels starting next year. That'll shift for me because now I have three speakers that are going out on my behalf to for Stu Mclaren. He's like, dude, I want to do four stages and I want them to be for big stages and that's it, and that will move the needle in his business on a big way. So for everybody in the season of life they're in, I want you to understand that this is so many stages and you don't even realize how many exists and we're gonna help you get really clear on your portfolio in this training.
Speaker 2: 17:33 I love it. For me, one of the things I get the most out of you, pete, is the idea as far as expanding my mindset with how many additional opportunities there were, and then the other thing was exactly how to get on those stages. I think a lot of the people I talk to says, well, I've got my presentation and I questioned whether you really do, but I'll leave that to let him deal with that. Whether you have your presentation pizza deal, but one thing I can't say that pizza, amazing that is helping you actually get on stages and teaching you how to get on stages. As I mentioned, we've hired will have probably some of the neighborhood of 15, 15, possibly even 20 different speakers this year to try to get on 500 stages and in 2019 and it's all because of pete and his skill set and helping us get on those stages.
Speaker 2: 18:15 That's allowing us to basically have a complete huge event team that's going to be going out this year again to spread click funnels, message to the world and we're so excited to be working with Pete and with advanced have reached team and really spending that kind of time. I can tell you if for me, if I was to, you and I talked back and forth as far as my past and different boards. I've been involved in real estate. I've been involved in financial services I can tell and a lot of internet marketing, every single business I've ever been in has always had a speaking component to it and it's the only way you can truly scale a business, so understanding that those guys who are listening right now, if you have a product or a service and you think you're just doing it online, I can tell you you can 10 to 20 times what you're doing online by adding the speaking component to it.
Speaker 2: 18:59 There's. You get so much more credibility. You have so much more of an authority figure when you start speaking and talking to people and they hear you, they see you. They connect. It's a relationship built. I mean, I go on and on about the importance of stages. It's again against the whole reason why a higher peak was to help us take our stages to the next level. So again, if you guys are in that situation where you're trying to scale your business, you're trying to add additional revenue, by all means, check it out. Again, it's a one hour launch workshop against one hour long. H O u r launch workshop, is that right?
Speaker 3: 19:29 Yeah, one hour launch workshop.com. And Dave, what I would say, and I got a funny story with data, but like I want to really. I've got a really funny story. I want to drive home like the power of the one hour launch, like forget that one our launch. So Dave calls me a couple of years ago. He's been, he's become a friend of mine. Like I'm so glad that Keith Yackey introduced us. We're going to be doing something cool this year at an event and we're going to be doing a lot of cool things, but in being able to help the speaking team, but they've called me a couple of years ago, a year and a half ago, year and seven months ago. I was like, dude, you never believe it. We just did 900 k on this stage and a lot of you know that because it was the first time at 10 x.
Speaker 3: 20:07 and I'm like, all right, he's just motivated me. So watch this. No, this is fun. And you've helped a lot of organizations or individuals go from zero to six using state agency or to seven zero to eight overall in their business. And we've never taken seeing someone go from zero to nine, I believe. I believe click funnels can be that organization. But here's the thing. We've seen a lot. We had seen a few million dollar stages at that point. I had seen it from our clients and I'm like okay, he did 900 k, I had a big stage coming up this January, this past January. And I'm like okay, I just want to be able to tell Dave what I did. And so Michael Phelps was the opening keynote. Howie Mendell was the closing keynote. I was the in the middle of that.
Speaker 3: 20:49 And by the way, they treat me dates. They paid me to be on that stage because of the value I provide and they let me talk about my products and services. And when it was all set in that said and done, that was a seven figure stage. We did over a million dollars from that stage. And I was like, yes, the one hour and I got Dave and Russell and then obviously all of you know the story, like I know Russell doesn't do physical stages much, but when he does, I think that's a commercial, but when he does a million dollars plus in, I am so excited to see what Russell does this year as well. And so like, look at your leader. He built his company in the first year on digital stages. Look at them in physical stages. When he does them, he knocks it out of the park, the one our launch really works. And so dave, thanks for having me. I love to have a lot of people join us in that one hour launch workshop name.
Speaker 2: 21:46 I love it again. So it's one our launch workshop.com. Go there, check it out. Uh, for one it's built on click funnels or it better be right. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: 21:55 well pieces of it or not. So yes, I'm a, I'm a two comma club guy.
Speaker 2: 22:07 I would love to get you to our eight feet. I should've had a ring here that, uh, I just, in fact, we just got a new ring for Russell actually as I'll show it to you later.
Speaker 3: 22:17 Hey, that stage I just talked about, for me, that stage was one with a click funnels page. They actually scheduled a call to see if they wanted me as a speaker on a clickfunnels page because our stage campaign is all built within clickfunnels self. Man, it's, I'm a big advocate of Cleveland.
Speaker 2: 22:34 It's just fun for me. I can tell you again, I bet you were such a dear friend and I love spending time with you. I appreciate. I know you're limited in the middle of the launch right now and I know how busy things are. You've got a million other interviews and podcasts and stuff going on. I appreciate you taking the time today. Again, people, anyone who's listened to this, I hold back anything that does these days, it's been so much fun. Uh, we actually are a crazy yacht coming up here with him and all this other stuff. He's always sucking money out of me some way or the other. Anyways, bottom line is again, go ahead and check out one hour launch workshop.com. I regardless, you've got to be doing stages and if you're not exactly sure how to do it. Pizza. The Guy I hired him and I totally. That'd be opportunity spending time out there with both Chris and miles. Spend three days with them. God knows what he's talking about when it comes to stage it, so check out one hour launch workshop. Again, Pete, always so much fun having any other parting words before we let you go.
Speaker 3: 23:31 Oh Man. Dave, thanks so much and I just thank y'all for. I'm excited to see click funnels in 2019 and the game plan that you have with this powerhouse speaking teams. So
Speaker 2: 23:41 thanks man. We'll talk soon. All right everybody, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 4: 23:46 the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others? Rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me or I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over 650,000 and I just want to get the next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and get this out to more people at the same time. If there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'll be more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if there's people like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or I can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
If you lost everything in your business, who would you turn to? Dave discusses the importance of relationships, providing value to people, and the 5:1 Ratio rule of thumb to go by.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"If you go into a relationship with the idea that you are keeping score, you are always, always going to lose."
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Welcome back everybody. I'm so excited to be sharing this topic with you. This is one of my favorite things personally. It's one of the things I've been seen so much of recently. I want to make sure you guys really understand and feel the importance of this, this major topic that so many people get wrong and I've seen recently two or three instances on both sides, those people who just crushed it and those people who totally screwed it up. So what I want to talk to you guys about right now is what is the return on your relationships or what is relationship capital? Relationship capital is really one of the most important things people screw up all the time.
Speaker 1: 00:51 Uh, as most you guys know, I'm actually, I've hired jerrick robbins as a, as a personal coach and uh, been going through a whole bunch of different things with him and in my own personal life as well as my business life. And, and one thing she was talking about is the importance of relationships. So he and I go deep onto this topic recently and everything as far as marriage and business, a kid, just all sorts of crazy stuff. And one of the things he was referencing was the Gottman Institute. So the Gottman Institute, those you guys aren't familiar with it? Uh, basically they studied 3000 different couples over the course of almost, I think it was like 20 years. And what they found was that literally within about three to four minutes of watching a couple, they could tell almost like a 94 percent, 95 percent accuracy whether that couple would get a divorce.
Speaker 1: 01:38 And it all came down to one thing. And that was the ratio of positive to negative things they talked about. In other words, the way in which they communicated with each other as a spouse, what they found was really came down to for every negative thing a person said about their spouse. If there was at least five or more positive things, they had this communication skills and respect for each other that they actually would be able to work through anything and saved their marriage when it was less than that magic number of five. Those were the types of relationships or marriages that they realized most likely we're going to end up in divorce and we started talking about this analogy and really started looking at as far as the way in which it applies to other types of relationships and what happened recently. For those of you who have followed my facebook pages, my facebook lives.
Speaker 1: 02:24 I had a crazy situation happened to where a guy basically hijacked a domain that we had trademarked and everything else and I've been going back and forth on this thing with them and trying to just offered to buy it back and was basically extorting. You know, running a ton of money. Seven figures type of value for something that we had already used and so I was struggling with exactly how to deal with this. I was trying to be nice about it. Finally just said, you know what? We're gonna have to turn this over somebody else and let them deal with it. The interesting thing was his whole reason for wanting to charge us so much as he wanted to build a relationship with us and like, what? You got to be kidding me. How in the world would charging me a ton of money for something that is already ours.
Speaker 1: 03:06 Build a relationship. I don't get that. He says, well, you don't have to have the opportunity to basically working through this and I become a two comma club, winter and and I know how much you guys talk about you. You call him a couple of winters and I'm like, dude, you don't get it. You don't get how this whole relationship thing works. And literally within about a week after that, we were with a guy a couple months earlier at an event and we had been talking about some of the software and things that he's using and basically just call and say, hey, you know what, I'd like to just give you my software for free. And we're like, what? Because yeah, I just realized if I give this software to you for free, you guys are better at marketing and as you talk about it and use it, it actually will draw more people to me and my business and you'll win and all, there'll be a wind wind and I just would like to offer you this software for free.
Speaker 1: 03:55 And I'm like, holy cow, this guy gets relationships. And then I had another situation where I was at an event and this guy basically came back and said, well, you know, Dave, you kind of owe me on this one. I'm like, I owe you. What are you talking about it? And he started going through this list of all the things that he thought that he had done for me that I didn't even realize he had even done, and unfortunately I didn't even perceive that much value to what he was giving credit to and therefore because of what he had done, he felt like he then owed it to me that the or the I owed him this favor that he was asking for. And I'm just trying to be vague here to protect the other people involved in the situations. But the whole idea behind this is if you go into a relationship with this idea that you're keeping score, you are always always going to lose.
Speaker 1: 04:46 You will always, always lose. You. Always be disappointed and frustrated because if you're going into the same as you're keeping score, there's no way you can come up on top because you'll always. You'll find yourself either you're either in the hole and you have a deficit and where you're trying to do things to make up for that deficit. Or you're going to be a situation where you feel like people owe you and you're gonna. Start looking down on them and and really just taken away from what's valuable there. So what I want to talk to you about here is relationship capital and to understand it's kind of like what is the return on your mom and what's the return on if you had. What's the Roi of your mom? I'm like, dude, there's no way in there. My mom is totally invaluable to me. I, I can't even begin to express the amount of gratitude that I feel towards my mom.
Speaker 1: 05:34 There's no one in this world who is helped me when I was one my back was up against the wall where I really had no idea where to turn to. She's been there for me for all the time and like there's, it's infinite there really I. There is nothing my mom can't ask for that. I wouldn't drop everything to be there for her. And I've thought a lot about this whole idea as far as when you go into relationships, and I see this happen a lot a years ago, especially in the whole affiliate marketing world where everything was reciprocal marketing mean you promote for me, I'll promote for you. And I'm like, Gosh, after awhile it got to the point where all we had were a whole bunch of incestuous list and there was no value in the list. And the unfortunate people got hurt the most were those people that we're supposed to care about the most.
Speaker 1: 06:20 And that's where the members and the people we were serving and protecting and spending a whole bunch of time trying to build relationships with and became this whole list grab type of thing. And what I realized when we started clickfunnels was we were not going to have reciprocal promotions. And Oh my gosh, let me tell you the amount of pain that caused in the beginning when you're out there asking them to promote for you. And they turn around and say, well, you need to promote for me. And my only response is, well I can't or I won't. It makes it really, really hard, but the fascinating thing is what I've realized over time is what it forced me to do is to get to situation where I started thinking of what are the other things of greater value than just a promotion that would be a value to them as an affiliate.
Speaker 1: 07:05 One of the things that I could do for them, what are the types of value things that I could provide and because of that we've actually built deeper relationships with a lot of the people who we do promotions with or who promote our services. For some people it's been A. I've had about my podcast for other people I. it's. It's been introductions. It's been things that were much more important than a direct, straight out email grab, email lists, email promotion or something of that sort. So understand that when you're looking at developing relationships in business, there is nothing more important. I've had this conversation with my kids so many times where all I care about other relationships, relationships to me are the number one thing in business. That's when your back is up against the wall. It's your relationships that matter when you literally have, when you've lost everything and you're sitting there and you're going, holy crap, what am I going to do?
Speaker 1: 08:01 Who can I turn to? To me, those have been the things that have, have created the most memorable, most impactful, most meaningful experiences that I could even imagine was when I literally was losing everything and I was able to reach out to people who I'd spent a lot of time, a lot of energy with, some little word situation they couldn't help but others, the way they helped wasn't through finance, finances for one. I remember there was a gentleman I, I ended up spending a lot of time on walks as I pour my heart out to him and saying I just, I don't know what I'm going to do. And that value of that relationship for me was so much more important than the actual money that I needed at the time. And as I take a look at, at my relationship with, with the people who I work with is as far as clickfunnels.
Speaker 1: 08:52 I've known Russell now for almost 12 years, uh, at least, you know, 10, 11 years now and the amount of things that we did before, as, as friends and in building relationships and all sorts of crazy stuff before we ever entered into a business relationship with click funnels is in fact, I've had this conversation with so many times where my relationship with Russell is so much more important to me than my partnership with click funnels or anything else that, that friendship is more valuable than economic gain or anything else. And I look at a lot of the types of things that people, when they go into business. So often it's this cutthroat and understand I'm extremely competitive but not in a relationship standpoint. Uh, and I think the part that people have to understand is you have to focus in on relationship deposits. How it's like a bank account.
Speaker 1: 09:49 It's, that's why I look at as far as relationship capital, you're not in a situation to where you can ever go negative. You don't have an overdraft protection in relationship capital situations. And so realize that's why, again, I take a look at the whole gottman institute thing. Every five, you've got to have five positive for one negative. I look at the same situation. If you're going to have a withdrawal in a relationship, you better make sure you're putting in at least five times as much value. And what you'll find is it actually levels up your game and it levels up the people who you find yourself associating with. It changes everything. And I really encourage you guys, as you start taking a look at business, no matter where you are in your business, I've seen, I've been around people who've literally billion dollar net worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And I've seen those in the hundreds, tens and hundreds of millions who have lost it all as, as well.
Speaker 1: 10:40 And it's fascinating to me to see the only thing that ever really matters are the relationships. And so as you take a look at building your business and you start taking a look at the way in which you're going to actually make things happen, you've got to make sure that you're putting in enough deposits. Uh, it's funny, I had this conversation with Russell the other day, there was a person we were looking at potentially doing some things with and uh, we were just talking about. I said, well, what about so and so? I says, you know, it's too early. What do you mean? What do you mean it's too early goes, I haven't provided enough value to that person yet to even consider asking that kind of thing of them. And they ask wasn't that big. But it was one of those things where I know how important relationships are to Russell.
Speaker 1: 11:24 It's literally the most important thing in the world. I've been fortunate to be blessed with my friendship with him over these years and I looked at my relationship with todd and with Ryan and Brent and John and the other partners inside of click funnels and all the things we've been through over the years. It's when it makes decisions so much easier just because we've been through so much crap together. And I think that as you take a look at your own business partners, and I've had, I've had business partners that have been great. I've had business partners that have been okay and I've had some that haven't been that good, but I can tell you the most important thing for me is always making sure that when you're looking at your own life and you're looking at your relationships and you're looking at the return on those relationships that you're always going in as the gottman institute recommended, they're at least going and a five to one ratio.
Speaker 1: 12:09 Make sure that you're overdelivering. You can never, ever put someone into your debt by doing that. It's just been the most amazing thing. I've, I've been so blessed. We had a situation happened just recently where we were looking at buying a company and uh, another software piece. And the guy basically said, hey, you know what, just try it. Use the software for free before we even do it and just see if it works for you and we can work everything else out later. And literally it was funny because we started getting attorneys involved as far as the transaction and it just got so muddy that the has said, listen Dave, we've been around a long time. Don't worry about the attorneys, don't worry about anything else. Listen, here's the dollar amount. We originally agreed on Wyoming. The funds, I don't need a contract. There's nothing there, and I felt the same way with him and so we literally just sent them the funds again.
Speaker 1: 12:59 He'd actually given it to us at first for free to use it. After it worked. We said, you know what, what's. He said, what's it worth to you? We gave him a dollar and I said, yeah, okay. In fact, I after gave him a higher dollar amount and he cut me back by 25 percent and I only sent him that amount. So realize that it's those types of people I always want to do business with. And so when you're out there building your business, and especially when you. It's one of those things I think when people first get started back, oh my gosh, I'm just, I don't have anything of credibility. I don't have anything to offer. You always have things to offer. It's not always dollars. It's not always that kind of. It doesn't have to be an economic exchange. Relationships are so much deeper and I think that's the main thing.
Speaker 1: 13:37 I want to make sure people understand that as you focus on building those relationships and making them as deep as possible, dig your well way before you ever thirsty and the way you did that well is by providing value to people and you can provide value in so many different ways. There was I, I went and volunteered at a ton of different seminar supporting people and everything else before I ever ever asked to be involved with them just because I provided value in that area. And that's what came back to me. There's been times where from a consultant standpoint, I'll consult someone for. I literally got a phone call earlier today with a guy who's. I remember when he first started his company three years ago, we met at TNC and uh, we were one of his first clients and he was literally said, you know what?
Speaker 1: 14:21 We're in a situation where were, where we want to do an integration, deeper integration with you guys. And we'd love to have you promote. And I know you don't like promoting. I said, you know what, we're not going to promote it, but what else can I do to help? And so, uh, he's got a software thing and I told him how we built click through webinars and, and offering the software actually for free and providing and selling the train actually was a win win for us. And he goes, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And said, you know, Dave, I always feel indebted to you. Every time I get off the call. And I never looked at as far as a debt, I just believed that, that all of a sudden you never know who that person's going to know and who they're going to introduce you to.
Speaker 1: 14:56 I've had that happen so many times where that's why I don't keep score, don't keep score and relationships, relationship capital. There's exchange of capital, relationship capital, so frequent. And you have to understand when you're networking, when you're building those relationships, you've got to always be that go-giver. You've got to be the person who's out there who's willing to help other people who's not always going in it for yourself. I know for a lot of you guys were listening to Dave, that is so boring and basic. I understand it might be, but it's not practiced by as many people as I wish it was, so having an amazing day. Again, thanks so much for listening. Send me a personal message or email or comment or let. Let me know if these are a value to you, what you're getting out of this, how it can provide greater value to you.
Speaker 1: 15:38 I value the fact that you're taking time to listen. Please go into itunes and rate, review it. Let me know if these things are of value to you because if they're not, I want to change it. I want to make sure that you're getting valued. You've now spent whatever. How much time is the den? Ten or 15 minutes of your time at two times speed. It was still seven minutes and I appreciate that. So I am grateful for anybody who listens to this podcast and I appreciate any feedback that you give me. Have an amazing day and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 2: 16:06 Hey everybody, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me where I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get that next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people. At the same time. If there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'll be more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if you'd like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Why Dave Decided to talk to James:
Founder and CEO of Autopilot Entrepreneur, James P. Friel is an entrepreneur, consultant, and author who helps entrepreneurs systemize, grow, and scale their businesses by getting them out of the day to day operations of running their companies. Master of business analogies, James illustrates the systems and foundation businesses and entrepreneurs need to put in place in order to excel to new levels. Learn the 5 pillars every business has and how to maximize and sustain growth in each of them.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"Sometimes, it’s not about applying more force, it’s about creating more bandwidth."
"All upset comes from unmet expectations."
"The most valuable resource we have is people."
"The bigger your team gets, the more you are going to be responsible for being the conductor of the orchestra, as opposed to the violinist."
"If you don’t make time to work on your business, you will always be stuck working in your business."
Having an entrepreneur mindset is not the norm. Understanding that as a business owner and manager of people, the people under you might have a completely different mindset. Learning to communicate properly and understanding personality types is an important skill to develop as you go from solopreneur to team manager.
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward
Speaker 2: 00:17 back. Everybody. This is going to be the ride of your life. I'm so excited for. I've had the opportunity of known this guy for quite some time and I want to make sure that you guys get to know him and a at a different level. I've had him on before and we talked about some really cool stuff. I mean the guy's totally brilliant, rocket science, brilliant type of stuff, but the cool thing is he's not only. So. First of all, before I go on about it, I want to first of all introduce Mr James P friel. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: 00:43 Dave, I'm so excited to be here with you today. Thank you for having me, man.
Speaker 2: 00:47 So this is one of the things, I don't know. You're one of our two comma club x coaches, which is amazing and super cool. You've actually been here at Klick falls. We helped us for the last six months, systematized and ton of this stuff and I think at times you kind of get pigeon holed in this trello. Again, I want to make sure that doesn't happen, so I want to break that code right now. Again, you're the CEO co founder and CEO and founder of the autopilot entrepreneur, which is just a super cool concept and I think the part I'm liking the most right now is, uh, were just talking offline about your new website and this whole idea as far as that you help entrepreneurs systematize the game to grow and scale your business, own an asset that works for you, enjoy freedom, income and peace of mind is the stuff that I just love. Especially this whole idea as far as systematizing the game. I know you got a new book coming out and you've just got so much crazy stuff going. So with that, everybody, again, I wish you guys could stand up and give a huge welcome and round of applause to Mr James P friel, but to James again, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Speaker 3: 01:45 Oh, Dave. Yeah, it's my pleasure, man. It's always, uh, always amazing talking with you and getting to hang out and I think, you know, um, for me business business is a game, right? Business is, in my opinion, one of the coolest games imaginable. There's so many moving pieces and parts. There's, there's people, there's like, there's customers, there's employees, there's, there's a, you know, there's technology, there's like all these different things going on and uh, ever for as long as I can remember, I always want to know like, all right, well how does it all work? Right? And that's sort of been a, a very like driving thought of mine. Most of my life is like how, how does everything work? I love figuring out how things work. Like when I was a kid I took everything apart to try and put it back together and I feel like that passion and excitement really got channeled towards business. You know, I don't know, probably like 15 years ago or so, and what I've, what I've realized is most entrepreneurs that I've come in contact with go about doing their thing with massive amounts of trial and error. And just hoping that's something is going to work instead of recognizing that every of success in every area of life imaginable has rules of the game and there's ways to become better at it. And so that's really what I'm excited about sharing with people is how to systemize that game.
Speaker 2: 03:12 I appreciate that because I know for me, I've always looked at it's why I'm so fascinated about business. The same type of thing that you just mentioned is it is a game. And I think what I love you just made mention of is too often people kind of go into this haphazardly like, uh, you know what, I've got this passion, I got this idea, maybe I'll try this, you know, and, and there's such a huge difference between having a product and having a business. And I think so there's nothing wrong with having a product and having a product lifestyle and doing, there's nothing at all wrong with that. And we have a lot of people inside of our click funnels community who do just that. And then at the same time we've, you know, we've got over 360 people now going over a million dollars inside of a sales funnel.
Speaker 2: 03:49 I know you've coached quite a few of them, got over 26 people and now I've done over 10 million and at that point, once you start getting to those dollar amounts, you've got something substantive substantial going on. And I parked that I love most about what you teach and people you work with. This is to see how fast they can get there, how fast, if they really focused on the game, the speed and implementation as they really focus, they actually are able to accelerate the growth that most people can't. It's like hiring a good coach in athletics. And again, I look at, we talked about the game and I think so often there's so many comparisons to fitness and we were just joking about how sore your legs are from begged you and beating you up to doing a million lunges and barbell squats and all that stuff. But again, it's all part of the game. So with that I do, I want you to kind of dive in, what are some of the key components, what are some of the rules to the game that you found as you've worked with? I mean, you work with some amazing, amazing companies.
Speaker 3: 04:41 Yeah. Well I've, I've been, uh, I've been very fortunate to have had those opportunities and then to help other people create great results. But I think I'm one of the, one of the things that I've been recognizing a lot lately and this is stuff that's going in the book and it's stuff that I've been really teaching people a recently, is that no matter how big the business is, like because I've, you know, I've worked with, you know, solo preneurs all the way up to, you know, my, my experience in working with companies that have hundreds of thousands of employees and every single company has five, five pillars that are present. Even if you don't immediately identify them in and consciously. Being aware of those five pillars is so important for how you manage the business and how you manage the growth and those. There's pillars. We're not going to sound like anything like a crazy to anybody, but their their marketing, which is getting people to raise their hands and say, hey, I'm interested.
Speaker 3: 05:42 It's sales. Getting people to shake hands and say, yeah, let's do this together. Delivery, giving people the thing that they paid you for operations, which is the glue that keeps everything working together and the gears, they everything moving and finance, which is simply making sure that we're measuring how much money we're making. We understand the health of the business, right? And, and I think like at the early stages of growth, everything feels very mushed into like one giant blob. Like I just got to do something to make more money. Right? And, and that's true to a certain extent in terms of getting sales traction in the marketplace, but you really need to identify these five pillars and understand what things you need to do in each one of those pillars in order to continue to grow the business and create an asset that works for you.
Speaker 3: 06:36 And we have this thing we call the traffic light rating system and it's red, yellow, and green. And so we look at each one of those five pillars and we say, okay, well where is it red, yellow or green? Red Is there's no systems in place. Everything takes a ridiculous amount of work and effort to get something out the door. The results are inconsistent. We don't know when we're going to get a result. Yellow. We might have some of the core components of the system, people, processes and tools being developed, but they're not working together yet. And so we're. We're making progress, but our results are still a little bit sporadic. And then green, which is when we have people and we have processes and we have tools and all of them are working together. That's when we get leverage as a business owner, right when we have things at green.
Speaker 3: 07:27 And so what we've been able to do very quickly is say we've got these five pillars and each one of them can be red, yellow, or green. And almost in five minutes we can say here's where the business is in trouble and here's where they're doing really well and here's what we need to focus on next. And where we need to put systems in order to get this thing to the next level and it's almost become like is very high level your entire business on one sheet of paper, like overview, a very zoomed out level like what do I need to focus on in order to get to the next level? It's been very, very cool.
Speaker 2: 08:02 So if a person is listening to going, okay, so now I understand my five pillars and when they start looking at that red, yellow and green where some of the things they can do
Speaker 3: 08:11 to kind of get started right now and say
Speaker 2: 08:14 there's obviously if I have a system that's one thing, but what are some more of the details? What are they, what's the nitty gritty stuff that need to be looked at as far as. And I think if you don't mind clarify for people that difference between marketing and sales for some reason I talked a lot of people and it always gets so muddied up. So if you don't mind kind of clarifying that as well.
Speaker 3: 08:30 Yeah, for sure. So, so super high level. And I think sometimes it gets a little bit muddier when you're talking about online sales, but marketing is what generates interest, right? Marketing is what hooks people and causes them to say, Hey, I want to find out more. Right? And, and sort of leads them into the funnel in terms of online sales. Marketing is like the advertising that gets people to the funnel. Marketing is the thing that, you know, the social posts like the paid ads, like all those things that are generating interest that get the click, that get people to go where we want them to go. Sales is where we, where we closed the deal, right? Sales is when people go from saying, Hey, I'm interested to, yes, I want to do this with you. Right? And so, uh, you know, so this is what's so amazing about clickfunnels is that we can get, you know, all of that traffic, all that interest to basically our online salesmen, which is, you know, the funnel.
Speaker 3: 09:27 And, and that's where we closed the deal. Um, you know, if you have an offline sale, it's gonna be, you know, your marketing is going to be something that generates the lead, but your salesperson is going to be the guy that closes the deal and I think that those two things are very complimentary and they go hand in hand, but they're not one in the same. They're different and require different things to create a great advertising campaign as opposed to building a great sales funnel. Right? Those are going to require two different skill sets, potentially two different groups of people, but you need both of them in order to convert the interest into dollars in your bank account.
Speaker 2: 10:07 So if I look at, I remember when I first got started, I was the solo preneur and I remember when I hired my first employee, it was like the biggest stress in my life, freedom. And I'm like, oh, I got to pay for this person. I found myself working and so help me understand, um, what I'm looking at this red, yellow, green if, and again you can pick whichever size company you want, but if it's, in fact I'll just kind of let's say that they're already making sales so they're not starting. They've, let's say they're at the six figure level. We've hit that six figure club, but we're sitting there between, we'll just call it between $80,000 and 150 or 200,000. Sure. That seems to be the word. A lot of people get stuck. It's like it's a good enough lifestyle by myself, but if I want to start bringing other people in, how do I start creating systems and where does that red, yellow, green come in? Because as far as marketing, I might be, I might have outsourced my facebook ads and I'm paying two or $3,000 a month to have someone run those. I've got my sales funnel up, but as far as opt, I really don't have operations and where I'm looking at as far as my finances, it's basically, I don't know, maybe quickbooks or I'm hiring some accounting on the side who doesn't really know my business. Help me understand. I know we have a lot of our listeners who are in that in that range, help them.
Speaker 3: 11:20 Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question. So, so using, using that five pillars framework and the red, yellow, green, the person that you're describing, their marketing might be at yellow or green right there. Sales might be yellow or green, but they're delivering their operations could potentially be at red, right? Meaning that if we just continue to pour more and more sales into this thing, eventually we're going to crumble under the stress of the sales that we're producing. Right. That I don't a consistent structure to deliver on those sales and I don't necessarily have a way of operating my entire business that supports all of the sales that are coming in. And so we'd say, okay, if you're at, you know, yellow or green and marketing and your read on delivering operations, the goal is to continue to grow the business, right? But in order to grow the business, we've got to remove the things that are standing in our way of growing the business, right?
Speaker 3: 12:21 Like sometimes it's not just about applying more force, it's about creating more bandwidth and uh, and, and that's what needs to be done in that particular case. And so we'll say, all right, great. So what we need to do is we need to figure out how do we increase our, increase our throughput, right? And that would be an assistant that helps us operate more effectively. And, and in my, in my way of seeing things, a system is the combination of people and processes and tools and all of those things working together. So you know, if we're talking about the solo preneur who's got a pretty good life, you know, making six figures or something like that and they say, yes, I do want to get to the next level. Part of that is going to require people. But like you said, in your experience and my experience at the beginning as well, hiring those people is not only expensive but it's extremely stressful because you're like, what do I tell them to do?
Speaker 3: 13:20 Now you're just like, oh my God, now I have people that are asked, looking at me, asking me what to do. And so the way that I think about it is we need to put, we need to put systems in place first and then hire people to plug into those systems so that they're not disorganized when they actually start working for us. And I didn't always recognize this in my corporate days. I had a big team, but I wasn't the one who had to put the systems in place. I just was lucky enough to just manage a bunch of people. And. And that was it. And then I got out on my own, I was like, all right, let me just start hiring people. And it was like herding cats. It was like a complete mess. And so I very quickly realized that until I could have a coordinated way of telling people what to do and making sure that they do it and then being able to know what was expected of them, it was going to be really difficult.
Speaker 3: 14:13 And so hiring people, you know, is, is one of the key parts of building a system and that's, you know, first and foremost, like what do I want to give that person to do? What is their role going to be? What are their responsibilities going to be if I just hire somebody hoping that they're going to come in and read my mind and improve my situation, like I'm going to be disappointed in, that person's going to be frustrated and we're going to have a massive disconnect, right? So we need to be clear on what their role is, what their responsibilities are going to be. And, and it sounds crazy obvious once you hear it, but it in the moment of all the stress and overwhelm trying to figure this out, you don't recognize that you need to ask yourself, how am I going to know that this person is successful?
Speaker 3: 14:59 Like what does good look like? Right? And taking a short amount of time upfront to figure out those things will lead to a much smoother onboarding processes in a much more fulfilling relationship with that person in the long run because you actually know what slot in the company you're trying to fill them in. And uh, and I don't think a lot of people take the time to do that and it winds up costing them a ton of money that, that they don't really have to, they don't have to have that kind of experience if they take 10 minutes and they plan things out a little bit better ahead of time.
Speaker 2: 15:36 No, I love that. It's one of the things I enjoyed, uh, when we were working with you here at click funnels was the interview process. We did a lot of hiring. When you're, when you're consulting with us and you're extremely good in the hiring process and I think part of that goes back to what you were just referring to as far as you're really. One of things I love about James is you're so awesome at creating a framework and I think it not only, it makes it easier for the person who's doing the hiring, but also it makes it so much easier for the person who's coming on board. There's nothing more frustrating than a. In fact, I was just talking to the person we hired to run a lot of our, our coaching or speaking team and you know, it last, it was late last night and he was leaving the office and he hadn't been talking to Russell and Russell said, you know, Dave, his biggest concern is it doesn't want to let you down.
Speaker 2: 16:19 Yeah. Thought, you know what? If he's saying that that first, I think it's great, but it also, first thought I had was I probably haven't given them enough of an outlier as far as what his real job is and he shouldn't be feeling that way. If he knows that this is my expectations, and so I, I seriously, I thought last night and this morning I've got to do a better job of making sure he knows exactly what's expected of them because there's nothing more frustrating for someone who's trying to do a good job and not know what they're being measured up against and you've just always been so awesome at creating that framework. So we've talked before quite a bit, James, about this whole idea as far as companies who are at it's, it's either one, three or seven. It's $100,000, 300,000, $700,000 million. It's 3 million, 7 million, 10 million seemed to be.
Speaker 2: 17:04 Those are some of the big barriers where you have to stretch and you grow during those transitions, but part of that really comes in this hiring process and in the framework that you've always built around that. So if a person's out there and they're hiring their first or second or third or fourth person, which for most of our clients, most people inside of clickfunnels, their teams are usually under 10. Right? And so those hires are really super critical because it's not a common and wearing multiple hats, how have, what is the system that you've created that helps people really identify what those roles and those responsibilities are? Because for a lot of the Solo preneurs they've just been doing it all and they just expect everyone's going to know how to pick it up.
Speaker 3: 17:44 Yeah, absolutely. And, and nobody is a mind reader much to my much my extreme disappointment. You know, nobody, nobody knows how to read your mind and until they, until they figure out how to do that sort of technology, we're all sort of stuck with us as people and we're all imperfect and uh, you know, trying to do the best we can for the most part. And so I think that, I think the first thing, Dave, that is, is where I look, it's, it's top down and you know, not to beat a dead horse, but if I go back to the five pillars in the red, yellow, green, and I know I'm, I'm read marketing and I'm red on sales, that's going to be looking for a different person. Then if I'm green on marketing and I'm red on delivering operation, so like first of all, figuring out like where is the need inside of the organization in order to get the whole company to get to the next level so that we're not just sort of arbitrarily figuring something out.
Speaker 3: 18:42 I think that's the first thing, right? And so let's just say, you know, we're looking for somebody in, in sales, maybe we need a salesperson, right? Like I just recently hired a full time sales guy and went through this exact thing. I'm myself and so I'm, I'm looking at saying, all right, great. I have a need for the sales role, right? And here's what that person is going to be responsible for. They are going to be responsible for following up with all of our leads. They're going to nurture the people who fill out applications. You're going to make sure that everyone who does buy, you know, they follow up with them a certain amount of time afterwards so that we have an up sell opportunity, right? Like, I'm, I'm very clear on what I want that person to do. And then we, and then we say, or a great, how am I going to know whether that person is successful and we have to set metrics in place, right?
Speaker 3: 19:32 Like you can't measure anything if you like, if you don't have a measurement by which to kind of stack it up against and, and it's, it's not always the easiest thing to figure out the metric, but it's important. Right. So for this role in particular, sales role I think is sometimes a little bit easier. You know, what, what's our conversion rate, right? Like what's our close rate that we're getting and what do I expect us to get it? Maybe my expectation is crazy because I'm overly optimistic, but at least we have an expectation and then we can sort of calibrate between what's actually happening in that expectation. That. And that really goes regardless of whatever role it is. And so like the guy that, the guy that you're hiring to work on the speaking team, right? How many speaking engagements do you expect them to have them on?
Speaker 3: 20:21 What kind of conversion rate you expect them to have when he's going out and doing the presentations, right, and all of those things and so you know, your role is you're the speaker, you know, the, the road shows, speaker for click funnels and your responsibilities are x, yZ, , etc. Measures of success. This is how i'M gonna measure you. Right? And like those three things alone at least start to get us in the ballpark of how we're going to define success in that relationship. And one of The things that's so important is that one of my early mentors had this great quote that I absolutely love. He said all upset comes from unmet expectations and I think that goes on both sides, right? Like if you're expecting this guy to go out there and crush it, but you haven't defined what crush It means and he's expecting to go out there and crush it, but he is a totally different expectation.
Speaker 3: 21:14 He's like, dave, I did 17 presentations this month and we got five sales. You're going to be like, what on earth is going wrong out there? But maybe he's excited about it. And there's like a massive disconnect in that upset is going to come from those expectations that were never aligned. And so I think one of the things that I see, um, is, is so rare is just, uh, the desire for clear and direct communication. Um, and, and you know me well enough to know that I'm a, I'm a pretty direct communicator. Um, and I'm not beating aRound the bush and I'm not saying there's not other valid styles of communication, but in terms of making sure everybody is on the same page, just make sure everyone's on the same page and don't be afraid about, you know, setting those expectations and letting other end creating the space for other people to debate whether those expectations are realistic because then at least you get to a common ground on which to manage that relationship against.
Speaker 3: 22:19 And I think that's, that's a huge thing that, you know, that the greatest leaders among us are the ones who have the clearest expectations for the people that are working for them. And uh, and, and that I think not only helps us as entrepreneurs and business owners and in leading our companies, but it also, it also provides a tremendous amount of security and confidence for the people that are working for us because they know when they're meeting the expectation and they know when they're not and they don't ever have to wonder like, oh man, his name is james upset with me, or like, does dave think I did something wrong or anything like that because we're really setting those expectations up front. And then we're revisiting them on unregular interval, right? Like, think About, um, when we were in grade school, if you never got a report card until you graduated eighth grade and then your eighth grade teacher is like, you know what, dave, you sucked for the last eight years, we're going to have to hold you back.
Speaker 3: 23:26 You'd be like, why didn't you tell me sooner? Right. Like, you'd be upset. And, uh, and, and we don't, I think in the workplace we don't recognize the need to give each other feedback frequently enough according to what our measurements of success are. And it doesn't just a, it's not just a thing for the employee, it's a negative thing for us as employers to, because we're not maximizing the investment that we're making in that person. And uh, you know, and to quote warren buffet, he said, our job as business owners is to be the allocator of resources and the most valuable resources we have our people and if we're not maximizing the investment we're making in those people, then that means we're losing money and like nobody wants to lose money, but it's not, it's not as easy to see as some of the other things that are happening inside the business. So that's probably a pretty long winded answer, but it's, it's definitely one of the areas that I'm passionate about is how do we set up the game in order to get the most out of the people that are helping us because that's pro. If we're hiring good people, that's probably what they want to do anyway.
Speaker 2: 24:38 I love it. I think it's, you've been become literally the master at systematizing the game. And I think as you, as I look at your framework, as far as those five pillars and the red, yellow, green, I know for myself, especially when I first got started, there was a lot of times where I did. I unfortunately set people up for failure and I did get frustrated a ton because I was like, gosh, why can't you just figure this out? And I'm like, you know what? Not everybody is an entrepreneur and not everyone is. And again, that's why I've. I've loved, I know you're a master at understanding those 16 personalities and understanding people. I think that for me has been one of the things I've appreciated and I've learned so much from you, james, is really understanding how best to work with people and realizing that a lot of the people who come to workforce, what they want is security and wants to ability.
Speaker 2: 25:28 They want to know that they're going to be safe and they're being protected. And I think that the best way of doing that is setting them up to succeed by giving them very, very clear expectations. It's again, it goes back to your red, yellow, green, or even your your grade report card type of thing. When you know what the grade is, I didn't know. I can either apply more effort or I can coast a little here or whatever, wherever you might be, but for me, as I've looked at the way you've done that, I'm. I'm fAscinated by the way you are able to really spend a whole bunch of time allocating human resources. Probably one of your greatest skill sets that I've appreciated, I've seen you work with other companies, is really helping people to understand that is the most important piece of capital any business owner has.
Speaker 2: 26:14 I mean it really, really is. I know we talked so much about marketing dollars, your sales dollar, all that. Nothing's more important than the people and you can get those people to and we spent a whole bunch of time focus on, you know, our click funnels culture as well as our own employee culture and I think that that as I take a look at what you've done, I hope people really take time and go back and listen to us because the framework of those five pillars is so critical as a business owner and then as you go through the red, yellow, and green and rate those, you didn't know where you need to look at, what is the human capital I need to invest in to systematize and make that thing work. So again, I appreciate so much your skill set and doing that.
Speaker 3: 26:56 Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to share. I think, um, you know, we as entrepreneurs have a very peculiar mindset and way of being in the world, right? It's not statistically speaking, it's not normal. We're not, we are not normal, right? We are, we are the outliers. And uh, you know, maybe three percent of people really are entrepreneurs. That means the other 97 percent are not and when we come at them like, hey, you should be an entrepreneur like me. We're sort of fighting that whole trend instead of just embracing what is a beautiful ecosystem where certain people want to take more risk, certain people want to have, you know, different things and do different things and other people just want something that's different and for us as as business owners and entrepreneurs to be able to create a place were those people are not just welcomed but appreciated for who they are and what they bring to the table and how they can be part of that larger contribution. I think it's something that we miss out sometimes a by wishing people were more like we are and I know I've been there and now I'm sort of have a totally different mindset. I'm happy
Speaker 2: 28:15 that there's not everybody crazy. Like I agree with you completely. It's got a funny. You mentioned that we were working here late last night and one of the guys, you know who works for me, we were literally having this conversation just came up at 16 personalities came up and were sitting there saying, I want to be an entrepreneur so bad, and yet I've just, I just don't have a real high d, but I've got this huge economic drive and I'm like, just because you have a huge economic drive doesn't mean that you have to be an entrepreneur. I think at times people get that confused. You don't have. There's a lot of ways of, of fulfilling a lot of your other values in your life than having to be an entrepreneur. And I know that, uh, right now this whole entrepreneurship thing seems to have been glamorized quite a bit.
Speaker 2: 29:00 And when you and I both started to, it wasn't that way was a kIds who basically couldn't get a job. I remember even talking about the yacht and her first feelings about you as an entrepreneur. This guy obviously can't make any money, but I think it's. I appreciate what you've, you've mentioned there that you can't expect everybody, unfortunately, not everyone is that way and allows that opportunity. I'm working for you. So as we get close to wrapping things up here, as a person who's going to go from being that solo preneur and from just one or two people to that five to 10, it's a big change. Once you get to tHat five to 10 range, what are some of the things you start wearing more of a management hat and you know, or suggestions you could give to those who are in
Speaker 3: 29:42 that situation becoming more of a manager. Yeah. Well the, the number one thing you've got to, you've got to recognize that your contribution is not going to be as much a, the doing of the thing anymore as it is the setting the stage for the other people to do the thing. And that's a. And that's not the easiest transition to make. Um, uh, so, so I think just understanding that mindset, that the more, the more you grow in, the bigger your team gets, the more you're going to be responsible for being the orchestra. The conductor of the orchestra as opposed to the violinist and you might be an amazing violinist, but if you're staying in the chair playing the violin the whole time and there was nobody conducting the orchestra, then in the orchestra is going to sound like crap. And so you've got to be able to make that transition.
Speaker 3: 30:31 And I know, uh, I know for me, you know, with a lot of the operating systems that we put in place, it's specifically designed so that I can give people things to do and they can take tasks and they can work on projects and objectives and initiatives and have ownership of those things, but I can still oversee what everybody is working on. And um, and you know, like a, you look at, you look at it like a company like mcdonald's and their processes are so well defined, right? That they're not just hiring the 16 year old kid who wants to work part time while he's going to high school and saying, hey, hey, come on in and just sorta make burgers and do whatever you want. And hopefully it all comes together. They have like all these processes that are defined and um, and they plugged that person into those processes and I think that's what we need to do to.
Speaker 3: 31:27 And, and I know a lot of people will say, well, I don't have time to do that. Right? And, and I'm too busy with all the other things going on and it's so cliche, but it's so true. If you don't make time to work on your business, you will always be stuck working in your business. And I believe that whether you're one person trying to expand two to five people trying to expand to 10 or 100 people trying to expand to 200, you need to have dedicated time where you're working on your business in order to build those systems, to pull people in and make sure that the processes are right. Make sure that they have the right tools to be able to do their job, to make sure you have the right job descriptions and measurements of success in everything in place. And um, and it's so incredibly critical to build, you know, as you grow to be the person who's building the structure for those systems so that everybody else can do their job well and that you can measure how well those jobs are being done.
Speaker 3: 32:29 And uh, you know, google is just a great example of how they've grown over the years with this, this concept of 80 percent of their time spent on doing things that are gonna generate revenue today and that our current projects in 20 percent of their time is spent on things that aren't sanctioned projects that are just specifically designed hopefully to make the company better in the future. And you know, in a five day work week, that means four days of the week people work on things that are on the books in one day. It means they work on things that aren't. Gmail came out of that paradigm, right? Like somebody was just like, oh, like I'm going to try and create a web based mill. And then it started taking off and they turn it into a real project. And I'm not saying that entrepreneurs have the luxury at first of spending one full day a week on working on their business, but you can't tell me like I believe it would be a bold face lie to tell me and to look in the mirror and tell yourself I don't have 30 minutes a week to carve out to work on my business.
Speaker 3: 33:34 Right and do it. And maybe that 30 minutes becomes an hour in that hour becomes an hour and a half over time. But if you're not working on your business, like you're never going to really make the kind of progress that you want to because the business requires a leader to oversee the entire thing. And that's part of what it means to be an entrepreneur and to grow a company is to be the person who steps into that role.
Speaker 2: 33:57 Wow. I may have. I can't tell you. I, I heard that years ago and I wish I would've listened to it because for the longest time I kept thinking, I, I don't, I don't have time to work on my business. That's a, that's a luxury. And it wasn't until I forced myself, and again, you may find you take it, you may lose a little bit of money in the beginning when you do that, but as you take that step back, it actually propels you five to 10 steps forward. And again, I hope I'm going to just. I wrote it down just because I. You always doubted these words of wisdom. I'm always writing down and that's whatever might just look at it. You don't take the time to work on your business. You will always be working in your business. And man changed. That for me was probably the biggest mistake I made in my twenties and early thirties was I just kept thinking, I'll just put more time into it. I'll put more time in and thinking that by my putting more time in magically some system was going to appear that was going to take me out of it. And it never ever did.
Speaker 3: 34:56 It doesn't end. It doesn't. And we like as we're, we're driven people as entrepreneurs and so therefore we think the only way to granted result is by applying more force. And it's not like the real way to get what we want is by figuring out how to create leverage and systems create leverage and like think of it this way, if you're, you know, let's say you got a really nice sports car, it's, you know, six speed manual transmission. Not too many people have manuals anymore, much to my disappointment, but, but if you, if you step on the gas in first gear and you refused to shift gears and all you do is keep your foot to the floor, like you're only gonna go so fast, you have to let your foot off the gas just to touch, to be able to shift into second. So you go faster and then into third and so on. And it's. And it's the same thing when we're, when we're driving our businesses, we have to be willing to sacrifice just a tiny, tiny little bit of our maximum output to create the space so that we can get to the next level and we can switch gears and actually go that much further once we switch gears.
Speaker 2: 36:07 Oh my gosh, I love it. I just got to take one more note here now. I love the analogy I've, I've seen that happen so many times in my own personal life and I get, I appreciate so much your time. I, your friendship means the world to me. It's nice having you here in boise as well. We're both transplants. It's been fun. So thanks again. James. Any other parting words? Oh, by the way, first of all, I want to make sure people know where to get you, so how can they connect with you? Yeah, sure.
Speaker 3: 36:35 Uh, so they could just go to my website, james p friel.com. That's f r I e l, so just james p dot [inaudible] dot com. And they can find out about, there's some free downloads there. There's a lot to check out our podcast, which is a lot of fun and a whole bunch of other things and if they want to connect, that's probably the best place to go.
Speaker 2: 36:54 Awesome. James, any other parting words before we let you go?
Speaker 3: 36:57 No, just, uh, just really appreciate being here with you today, dave. Thanks for letting me share. I always fun to connect and I look forward to, uh, you know, seeing people take this stuff and really apply it. Like that's, that's really what gives me a lot of fulfillment is when, when people will actually take action. So if you guys are listening to this today, know it doesn't have to be a huge monumental thing, but take action on a little bit of something and your business will be better off for it and I'm sure your life will be too.
Speaker 2: 37:25 Oh, awesome. Thanks so much man. We'll talk soon. Thanks dave.
Speaker 4: 37:29 Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to the podcast. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me. We're trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get the next few $100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people at the same time. If there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if people would like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do that do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Why Dave Decided to talk to Brett:
Brett Curry is the CEO of OMG Commerce, a digital marketing agency and Google Premier Partner. He is also the host of the eCommerce Evolution Podcast highlighting what’s new and what’s next in eCommerce. He and his team manage Google, Amazon, and YouTube ad campaigns for over 100 growing brands. Brett shares his knowledge of creating ads, what works and what doesn’t, and best practices for advertising.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"Are you saying enough to make someone say-- hey this is different, unique, and I want to find out more about it."
"Do something in the first 5 seconds to arrest someone on your product."
"If you have a great video or funnel, I believe now is the time to use youtube."
Brett goes into great detail on intent based targeting--targeting people on Youtube based on their google search history. He discusses how to properly build successful campaign advertising videos and gives wonderful advice on how to make them very effective.
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Everybody. Welcome back to it.
Speaker 2: 00:18 Funnel Hacker radio. This is going to be a fun, fun experience because it's a dear friend of mine. I wanted to do she guys too. I've known him for years and the guys absolutely crushing it in ecommerce eyes. Got his own. He's a CEO of Omg Commerce to digital market agency. You also is the host of the ecommerce evolution podcast. Welcome to show Mr Brett Curry. Welcome, Brett.
Speaker 3: 00:36 Dave, what's up man? So excited to be here. This is gonna. Be Fun.
Speaker 2: 00:40 It is so crazy. I remember, Gosh, I think. I think we met way back in the DOTCOM secrets local era. It was,
Speaker 3: 00:48 yeah. I was trying to remember dates. I'm terrible with dates, but I think it was 2009, 2010. That's. We're working closely with Russell on some dotcom secrets, local stuff and we started hanging out and a crazy where our paths have taken a sense then, but that was fun. Fun Times.
Speaker 2: 01:04 You guys have a killer agency that has just been crushing it for quite some time. You've done everything from, from TV, from local media to know you've got a ton of articles out there. You're doing this obviously, right? Niggas really specialized in the whole physical products on ecommerce, but one of the things I, if you're alright with I'd love to dive into and one of things you're kind of talking about before and that's this whole youtube thing and it's kind of this mysterious black box everyone talks about, but you have. You've mastered this thing, so I'm going to dive right in. Are you okay with that?
Speaker 3: 01:30 Let's do it. Yeah. Love, love talking to you to my favorite. It is the marketing topic of choice for me to nerd out on right now and I like talking all things marketing, but youtube is at the top.
Speaker 2: 01:42 Well how do you use it as a prospecting channel? That's one thing I know a lot of people struggle with. How do I actually use it to prospect?
Speaker 3: 01:49 Yeah. So it's interesting, you know, I think youtube has been a powerful channel for years and years if you're good at creating content. So, you know, if you go back to the Gary Vee days, you know, if you're a Gary v and he built Wine Library TV and just really launched his career on Youtube and they're a lot of other content creators. We've done kind of the same thing. And so that, that's been a powerful youtube would powerful on, on that front for a long time. Uh, but, but recently, you know, Google's come out with some ad formats that are really powerful. And namely the ad format we use is called Tru vue and it's called trueview. It's, everybody's seen it, you know, if you go to youtube, you're going to watch a music video or, or a cat video or whatever your video of choices. You're going to youtube and check that out.
Speaker 3: 02:37 It's the ad that pops up before that. So it's the pre roll, uh, in stream ad is what they're called. Those are the ones that are skipable. So, so I Bet Dave Woodward, you've had the experience where one of those ads pop up and you think, curse you advertiser. I just want to walk my work avenue, but something about the ad hooks you in that first five seconds, I'm magical. Five second window it you and you watched the whole thing. A lot of them you'd probably skip and that's fine. Um, but the beauty of that is from an advertising standpoint, you don't pay if someone skips, so you only pay if someone watches the ad or if they clicked through to your site so that they engage with it before you as an advertiser pay. So that's what we're using. We're using truview in a lot of different capacities.
Speaker 3: 03:20 And the beauty of this is a one, the youtube audience is massive. I mean everybody's on youtube billion users worldwide on a monthly basis, 18 to 49 year olds. You know, I saw a stat more people watch youtube during prime time, then the top TV, top 10 TV goes combined. Um, I even saw it turn, which is interesting for 13 to 17 year olds, like 70 percent of them are on youtube versus only about 50 percent on facebook for that younger demographic, which, which is interesting. Um, but anyway, so we're using varieties of the trueview ad format and kind of harnessing that massive audience and then harnessing what Google knows about it's users has got some amazing targeting options now on youtube and we're kind of combining that to create some, uh, some ad magic for people. So I, it, I know that most people kind of lean first to facebook because of all the data that's there.
Speaker 3: 04:18 What types, how does it compare from facebook to youtube? And you'd made mention earlier that you're actually seeing a lot of people starting to shift dollars from facebook to youtube. So kind of explain how that. Yeah. And so, you know, just to be fair, I think, I think facebook is so extremely powerful. I think most businesses need to use facebook. I don't know, facebook, myself, I've been at Google ads guy for forever and so it was a natural extension that, uh, I did the TV and radio back in the day as you alluded to as well. But, um, you know, some of the audience targeting is pretty comparable for youtube to facebook. So things like lookalike audiences as an example where, you know, you can upload your customer list to Facebook, they'll generate a lookalike audience for you. Google has something similar, only they call it a similar audience where you can upload, Hey, these are my buyers, these are my subscribers, these or whoever who will build a similar audience to that.
Speaker 3: 05:08 So that's nice. Um, any kind of interest based targeting. So, so all of the interest based targeting you can do on facebook, you can do something similar on, on Google. Um, in fact, one of my favorite audience types is called a custom affinity audience and that's where you can go grab websites that you feel like your ideal customer, likely frequency. So it could be, you know, if we're in the workout space, it could be, you know, the particular brand of, of a workout site, you're looking for a different crossfit websites and things like that or um, you know, it can be conservative news websites if you got an, you know, an outdoor product or something like that. So you're, you're building a list of a and you're telling Google, hey, build an audience for me, like those people to visit these websites. And of course Google knows who visits every website, right?
Speaker 3: 05:55 So they can build that list. I'm really, well now one of the things that Google has the facebook does not have is what's called a intent based targeting and one singular audience called it customer intent audience. And that's where you can target people on Youtube based on their google search history. So I don't know about you. Yeah. So this is just totally awesome. So do you, Dave, do you, are you a youtube user? Do you get on youtube much? Not as much as I as my kids there. Yeah. That's cool. So, uh, you know, when I'm on Youtube I'm mainly looking at music videos of my kids don't that, that I think this does line up with that trend I talked about earlier, like the 13 to 17 year olds, they're, they're all over youtube. My kids are looking at life hack videos and how to fix your hair and how to pick up girls.
Speaker 3: 06:42 My team looking at things like that, I'm usually looking at like a music video or sports or, or how to or something like that. My search behavior on Google's very different. Like I'll search for every product that I want on Google and stuff. Well now you can target people based on what they're searching for on Google when they're on youtube. So if we've got someone who's selling a, you know, some type of apparel, a winter coats a week, we could then pull a list of top keywords that someone might be typing in on Google. We can then give that to google, build an audience around that, and then those people, the next time they're on youtube, we can run our pre roll or instream ad to that audience. It, it is phenomenal and there's so many creative ways you can approach that. For most of our clients, that's the best audience to run it or, or close to it, a accustomed intent audience because you can kind of, based on the keywords you, you're using kind of pick people at different stages of the funnel and then, and then so you know, they're there at least in the market to some degree.
Speaker 3: 07:44 Then you hit them with a powerful video ad. It's just, it's an awesome combination. Is that work best for physical products or does it, does it matter? Well, I don't know that it matters. I mean I've seen some case studies so we were a google premier partner and we have our google reps come into our offices about four times a year and they do case studies and stuff and I got, I got to read a case study from Hawaiian Airlines and they're using this type of targeting and it's phenomenally well for them. Uh, but. But my agency, we work with physical product sellers. That's what we do. That's what I know. But it, it'll work for any business. I'm pretty confident, I mean as long as the, as long as your message is clearly communicated visually, as long as, as long as video is a good medium to communicate your message that I think you can, you can find the targeting that, that works for your business. But I mean, you know, we're, we're doing, uh, we're talking about Ezra firestone prior to hitting record. Good friend of mine been, been doing all his google traffic now for years. We run all the youtube for boom cosmetics. So yeah. Yeah. So, and then that's it. You guys are doing all that. Yeah. So of really. Well for them it was all hands. So I'm going to have to.
Speaker 3: 08:56 Yeah. You know, so he now he's a smart marketer obviously when that same company, but he definitely inspires a lot of things, but we're the ones kind of pressing the buttons and pulling the levers. So it could be skincare, it could be a wedding ring, it could be auto product, it could be, you know, we're, we're all over the map, but, but no, I think if I wasn't, if I owned a business, if I was using click funnels, like I know most of your listeners are, if my story can be told, well visually I would try, I would try youtube to see if it see if it would work well for a person who wants to kind of get started on that. Where do they go and how long did the videos you have to be, how professional they have to be made, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: 09:40 Yeah. Great question. So the, the video does have to be good and what I mean by that is it has to resonate, you know, it has to compel someone to say who I one VAT or, or at least I want to check that out. I want to look a little bit further at that product or that service. So it does have to be compelling. It does not have to cost you a fortune and I would almost advise against that. Um, you know, we, um, we do ecommerce for a long time. One of my, uh, favorite traffic sources, Google shopping, I don't know if he ever spend with Google shopping, but the product listing ads you searched for job search for a particular type of watch and then you get the little product images and stuff. Those ads work almost, no matter what, like if you have a, um, you know, if you're kind of bad at Google shopping, it'll still work pretty well for you.
Speaker 3: 10:30 Uh, not the case with Youtube, you know, if you throw up a, a crummy video that just doesn't move people, it's not going to work. It just isn't. Um, we, we've seen, you know, we're talking about audiences earlier and how important that is. I've seen though where we get the same audience targeting, but two different ads, one that really connects with people, one that doesn't and the results are staggering. No one will, one will never get off the ground and the other one will scale to, you know, spending $8,000 a day, you know, um, profitably. So, uh, there, there are some principals there. I mean, I think you need to, you need to hook people in the first five seconds, you to communicate a clear benefit. You'd have some testimonial elements you need to overcome, objections, you'd have a clear call to action, but it doesn't have to be, you don't have to hire some fancy ad agency to come and shoot this, this video, uh, one of, one of the best videos we're running now for a client.
Speaker 3: 11:22 It's 100 percent client testimonials shot with an iphone or whatever, phone, iphone, android mixing there too, which is fine. But, you know, we got all these clips of customer St Wow. Look at this product and this application that we love this. So we just, we mix those together with a cool intro, cool outro, and that's it. And it works. So there's not like a set, you know, you don't even have explosions and, and, and special special effects and CGI and stuff like that. It just, it needs to resonate with. So it does have to be a good ad, but it does not have to be expensive. Um, and, and so, and then you ask about ideal link. I'm the way, the way the pricing works, the way you're billed as an advertiser, someone has to watch at least 30 seconds of the commercial, uh, before you build the 30 seconds or the whole video, whichever comes first.
Speaker 3: 12:11 Um, you know, on, on facebook, facebook counts of you after three seconds, I believe. So that's another kind of difference in the two. Youtube counts as a view if it's, if it's over 30 or the whole video, uh, but a lot of the videos we're seeing that work are in that, you know, 30 to 92nd range. Most of that are a little over a minute. Really. The key is, are you saying enough? Are you saying enough to make someone say, hey, this is different, this is unique. I want to find out more about it. Sometimes you can't quite do that in 30 seconds. Um, you know, if you go, if you look at like the, you know, with the harmon brothers have done or like, like the click funnels video. Did you guys have made, you know, um, those were what, like two to three minutes kind of harm brothers.
Speaker 3: 12:54 And most of the videos about three minutes, you know, and that's, that can work too, a lot of our clients that they're their most successful videos or in the minute to minute 30 range. Um, and then uh, but we have some people like Ezra, you know, we've, we've tested some videos that are, that are north of five minutes a really. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I would say like stick within that kind of 60 to 92nd range is ideal. Yeah. That's fantastic. So when you're looking at the creation of that, I know it's typically, how long do you have before you skip the ad? Is it, it's five seconds. So pretty captivating those first five seconds to say I'm willing to eat the rest of this. Yeah. And my philosophy is we people out like may make some kind of statement or, or do something in the first five seconds where people that aren't interested, they'll click skip, right?
Speaker 3: 13:47 Because if they're not actually you want to pay for it. Right? You've got that option here to not pay for someone if they're not interested. So I like to open with a, with a question with some kind of grabbing statement, like make it pretty clear right up front, you know, what you're doing, what, what it's about. This is about this new type of wedding ring or this is about this new skincare product or whatever it may make that clear right from the get go and you do have, you do have five seconds. So we had one client a show us, so they were in the outdoor space and they showed us this video that the first five seconds was the animation of their logo. The logo was doing all this stuff. We're like, yeah, that's not going to work. Nobody, nobody cares about your logo a have the logo there.
Speaker 3: 14:29 You might get some brand again, but do something to capture them. Some kind of benefit statement, some kind of question, some kind of a, are you tired of this, you know, uh, can, can you not sleep at night because of x or whatever. Like some kind of something to arrest someone in those first five seconds that somebody that also makes someone who would say, no, I don't care about that product. Make them skip. That's great. Let's, let's get those people to move on and let's not, let's not for them. So yeah, you got five seconds. So that, that, that is also interesting to think about, okay, here's the angle of my commercial here, the benefits I'm going to work in, what's my opener going to be? And, and that's where I think you lead with a question or, or a testimonial or, or, or some kind of a, a grabber, you know, never do this again.
Speaker 3: 15:11 Or, or what if you could avoid this forever? What if you could stop paying so much for whatever. So something to really hook them right in the right at the beginning is important. Back to the good old direct response marketing headlines, man. It is, it is. And so, you know, this can be a, this could be a spokesperson, you know, on camera looking at you saying this directly. It could be a combination of of that and text on the screen. I like. I like a combination typically, but yeah, it's so cool. I'm, I'm a, I'm a student of direct response. I know you are as well Dave, and I've read some of the classes even got like 22 immutable laws of branding on my desk and so Joseph sugarman books of course way back when, like triggers. That's an awesome book. Triggers. But anyway, a lot of the principles still apply, right?
Speaker 3: 15:57 Like, like human nature hasn't changed a whole lot and people still either want to avoid pain or gain pleasure. Right. So thinking about these appeals a bit, none of that changes. It's just a new format and in a new medium and a new, you know, new audience targeting and things like that. But so, but yeah, our philosophy is let's, let's build it with direct response elements, but let's also build your brand in the process because one of the interesting side benefits, Dave, the worst thing is after someone runs on youtube a lot where we're usually running youtube campaigns in Google ads, so search and shopping stuff after they run youtube for three or four or five weeks, they're branded search campaigns will often increase by double. So people say, I didn't know if that was just Google's algorithm basically rewarding you for having spent money.
Speaker 3: 16:47 There are. So yeah, probably not. But what, what, uh, what, what they are doing is, you know, you have more people that are aware of your product, so now they're searching for you. So that's cool. Still top of funnel for the book. We're talking about it. Yeah. So now I'm, I'm introduced to your product. I'm not ready to buy right now, but if I am interested in my next step is probably to go search for it. So we had one client who got pretty aggressive with youtube and they're branded campaigns. So people searching for them by name, uh, increased by four x in the first month and then they're not a small brand. Um, so it was really interesting. But, um, but yeah, it's one of those things that it does bleed over into other, other channels as well. So it's kind of a kind of a halo effect, you know, from, from Youtube ads.
Speaker 3: 17:30 I love that. So when a person's on a youtube ad, is it, are you able to click the link? How do they, what's ease way of getting it from Youtube off youtube to where you want them to go? Yep. So there are there kind of three main campaigns, subtypes when you're running trueview. So Trivia, again, they're the, they're the instream are those pre roll videos we've been talking about. So there's, there's, um, standard trueview, which there's, you can have like a little companion banner banner that's off to the side. You have kind of a link over the video. People can click on that and go to your site or your channel or whatever you wanna do. So that's okay. That's kind of, that's been around a while. It's, it's okay. Um, the next option is called Tru Vue for shopping. So this is again for physical product businesses, but it's a combination of those youtube ads and then Google shopping.
Speaker 3: 18:18 So often the upper right or over the video you've got your product listing ads or, or Google shopping ads. Um, but my favorite format and this will work for ecommerce or non ecommerce is what's called truview for action and that's where in the upper right on desktop or over the video and mobile, you've got a strong call to action button. So it's learn more. Shop now, save now whenever you get to control that button and there's a companion banner and then you put a headline there too. So it's pretty prepared against some good real estate there. And the beauty of that format is you can actually bid on a CPA target. So yeah, you can tell Google, hey, I'm willing, I want to, I want to hit the CBA target now you're going to pay for the impressions and the clicks like, so you're not, you're not only paying a CPA.
Speaker 3: 19:04 That's some confusion people have. But I found Google is pretty good at hitting that CPA target. If you have good audience targeting in a good video overtime you can, you can hit your CPA target. Um, so, so that attribute for action is typically the best way. Like if you're, if you're looking to build your funnel to send people into the top of your funnel or, or whatever, I would, I would probably choose truview for action as the campaign subtype. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. As you take a look at that, you've been doing this a long time. What are some of the tips for people as far as creating the video itself? What? Any specific tips you'd say as far as the video goes? And we kind of in an odd route, a couple of different things, but what specific. Yeah, take, take your time there.
Speaker 3: 19:48 Um, another one of my favorite, a formats to follow for video is just interjecting a bunch of customer testimonials. Right? So that there's a great video for grammarly. Have you ever seen grammarly? They're not a client or anything, but they, it's software that helps you with your grammar mistakes. So you can, you can blue, it's just an add onto your browser, but as you're typing in in huge email or whatever, it's going to correct your mistakes for you, which is handy for a lot of people. Um, so the, the video that they have that they run on youtube, it's really just, it's like a bunch of different scenarios. It's the college student, it's the professional, you know, up and comer. It's the guy looking to get a job and there is just saying, you know, it's nice when I'm sending my email for my, my, my resume with my resume to catch all the mistakes that I'm making or it catches mistakes I didn't even know I was making.
Speaker 3: 20:39 So it kind of, as you look at it, it's like a combination of the most commented on things. So you kind of look at what are people saying about your product and structure that structure, the ad that way. Um, so a couple of things that I would consider is one, I would, I would show the ad to people that are in your market before you run it. So, so, so I have some people preview it and not, not like employees or, or just friends or whatever, but people who are in your market and ask them, you know, what their, what their thoughts are, feelings are things like that. Um, uh, but, but going back to some of the things I mentioned before, you know, it's got to have that arresting opener. It's got to be very benefit oriented and lead with the strongest benefit, you know.
Speaker 3: 21:19 So like Geico as an example, you know, they're always talking about cost savings. So 50 percent or 50 minutes could save you 15 percent or more on car insurance. Don't talk about all the other stuff as much the hammer on that, that cost savings because they've determined that's what causes people to switch. That's the trigger that causes someone to pick up the phone or, or we're going line. And so what is the strongest benefit for your product? Lead with that hammer on that. Come back to that, uh, get some social proof in there. So, so I like, I like endorsements, like actual customer testimonials. Um, and then I like some kind of objection handling. So if you think about these are the top one to two to three objections that someone has so, so, and again you kind of go back to your customer on this where people say, Hey, I'm worried that this is going to break too soon or will it last or whatever.
Speaker 3: 22:07 And so, so if the, if that's a concern, you talk about your guarantee, you know that hey we've got a, we've got a 10 year guarantee or whatever. No, no questions asked, that type of thing. So what are the objections someone has bring those up and answer those, solve those right there in the video and then, and then some kind of strong call to action. So it's always interesting to me like you wouldn't think this would be necessary but like a video with a call to action versus one without the differences is pretty drastic. Like even just a, hey, check it out now, go, go and you design your own whatever, you know, go to our little style guide and design your own thing or go download this report or go check this out or go get free shipping or go get, go get five of these triathlons and back the ones that don't fit or something like that.
Speaker 3: 22:50 Um, so some strong call to action. You got to end with that. Um, and, and then one other kind of little tip that we sometimes do is we'll now we kinda got a pretty good sense like, hey, this video is likely to work a, nobody's ever always right there you got it, you had a test that you get to know are you going to get the market decides ultimately not, not us as marketers, but um, we'll often run ads to our remarketing audiences first just to see like, what is he like, you know, because likely it's not going to just crash and burn. You're going to spend that much money, but you can at least see, okay, what's the view rate? Are People engaging with us? We, you know, uh, and, and then then decide, okay, this probably isn't worth rolling out to a bigger audience at this point. Um, so yeah, just just go a couple of tips and. But I can totally geek out on video production all day. I, we don't do video production just, just so you know, we're, we're more on the running the campaign side and stuff, but I love, I love the creative aspect and feel like got a pretty good handle on what, what works and what doesn't. So
Speaker 2: 23:47 that's it. That's awesome. I know it was funny when we were even just doing some of the content that we put out there on youtube, like our funnel hacker TV. At first we didn't even make, make any mention as far as make sure you subscribe down below next episode or there like that. It's been crazy. Just that, just tell them to subscribe or to ring the Bell and get notifications. Those little tiny things totally changed the whole game. For us. It is sit down like 50 or 60 videos before we ever thought we should tell them what the video, even though it's free, even though it's free
Speaker 3: 24:18 and even though the subscribe button is there, they still need to be told. It's like people need permission or they need to know like that's what you want them to do. Or maybe they're just not thinking about it, but you make it a simple ask a. I mean it seems like it shouldn't have to be that way, but. But it is so yeah, make the ask, make that call to action of some kind. It'll make a huge difference.
Speaker 2: 24:40 Well that's awesome. Well Brett, anything else before we kind of wrap things up here?
Speaker 3: 24:44 Man, it's just uh, you know, I think if you have the ability, if you have a product that works for video, which most do, if you tell your story in a unique way through video, I think now's the time to test youtube. It's still in its early stages. There's not a lot of people are, you know, compared to facebook on a lot of people advertising on youtube, you know, facebook is running into, you know, Max add capacity in the newsfeed is what I'm hearing a lot of cases and prices are going up and things like that. And again, I'm not, I'm not disparaging facebook. We use facebook, we love it. There's almost unlimited inventory on, on youtube too and just, just some ideas and so many people. So if you have a good video, if you have a good funnel built out, I think now's the time to test youtube, you know, and, and maybe one of the things you do is you get, get on and start, start kind of clicking around on youtube and look for some of those good pre roll videos, the videos that strike you and capture you and uh, and, and, and kind of look to mimic those.
Speaker 3: 25:43 So.
Speaker 2: 25:45 Well that's awesome. But I appreciate it. A 10 again, if people want to find out more information, where do they go?
Speaker 3: 25:50 Yeah, best place is just go over to omg commerce.com. That's our, our sites. Check that out there, get some resources and stuff. You can also google me, Brett Curry, a cso of my articles and stuff on youtube and Google shopping and whatnot, and then I do have a podcast, a ecommerce evolution, so we talk all things ecommerce, so check that out as well.
Speaker 2: 26:10 Awesome. Well Brad, again, so great. Can you again, we'll connect. I'm sure one of the seminars or events that were at. I'm sure we'll see each other around, so thanks again for your time. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: 26:20 Yeah, really glad to be here. Thanks for the invite and we'll. We'll chat soon.
Speaker 4: 26:24 Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me or I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get that next few 100 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as at the people like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Why Dave Decided to talk to Hailey:
Head of Marketing at Improvado.io and Co-Founder of Growth Marketing Pro, Hailey Friedman has helped hundreds of companies grow their bottom line through digital marketing. Hailey will discuss digital marketing basics and how to integrate it into your funnel, as well as give her tips on what works and what doesn’t when you are marketing your business.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
"Websites are dying"
"As a marketer, I never send traffic to a website"
Other Tidbits: Websites are becoming obsolete. Instead of sending customers to a website, try sending them to a landing page that is designed specifically to push them down a sales funnel.
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Art, everybody. Welcome back to funnel hacker
Speaker 2: 00:19 radio. I'm your host Dave Woodward, and today have the opportunity to having Hailey Friedman on the show. Haley, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: 00:23 Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: 00:26 I'm excited. So Haley's the head marketing or is head of marketing over at [inaudible] dot io. She's also the cofounder of growth marketing pro where she sells literally hundreds of companies grow their bottom line through digital marketing is one of the main reasons we wanted to have her on today is what you thought about really growing your audience. In addition to that, we're going to talk about some of the metrics and things that she's said loves to geek out on. So in addition to that, she also serves as the president Badass marketers and founders and I would just write, and I think you said there's over like 20,000 members that right?
Speaker 3: 00:54 Yeah. There's 20,000 members globally.
Speaker 2: 00:56 Crazy and I think you're running the, the primary group up in the Silicon Valley area.
Speaker 3: 01:01 Yeah. I'm the president of the San Francisco chapter.
Speaker 2: 01:05 Awesome. Well, I'm going to dive right into this and one of the things you and I were talking about just briefly here was this whole idea as far as how to get customers. I think that's the biggest struggle most people have is they get this wonderful idea and trying to find a way of, of getting that out to the market. So what are some of the things that you've seen? I know you spend a lot of time looking at different platforms and technology and it's not as much about the tech as it is about some of the other stuff. So how do you actually help people get customers?
Speaker 3: 01:33 Yeah, I mean this is a challenge that I personally faced myself. I was a founder. Um, I tried to start something on my own and the biggest lesson that I took away from it was no, you can have an incredible team and you can have an amazing product, but if you don't know how to get customers and you don't have anything worth very much at all. So that's kind of what set me off on this journey to figure out like how do you get Joe Schmoe to buy something and I'm just like big gray box that I really did not understand and to an unwrapped how, how this works. And so, um, I just, I lived across the country from New York to San Francisco. I joined a startup at the ground floor. I just became a sponge and I just learned everything that I possibly could about marketing.
Speaker 3: 02:18 I read blogs and conferences and the experts. Um, and then I implemented them not only at my job but for my friends and my family, like anyone who would let me. And I really kind of got my feet wet, figuring, figuring this stuff out. And so there's, there's really nothing better than trial and error. You learn a lot, but at this point I've probably done it like so many times that I've gathered this book of knowledge in my brain about what actually works and what doesn't work and it really depends on what the part of it that I think is so fun is that it's different for every business. Every business has different customers. You have different goals, you have different marketing budget and resources timeline that you need to hit those goals. And so like all those things need to be considered when you're figuring out what is the lowest hanging fruit thing I can do to get customers.
Speaker 3: 03:08 And so it's hard to give a blanket statement, which is why through growth marketing pro we're often helping founders one off like marketing marketers and founders that need one off helpful. We'll, we'll customize a plan for them. But overall I like to think of it like this. Like where is the highest intent? Customers like where, where are your highest intent customers? So for example, um, referral programs always have the highest intent because people who are visiting your website that were referred by a friend and they were already sold and educated by their close friend or family and now they're visiting your site and they're going to convert at like 25 percent, whereas the average trapped under convert converted one percent. So if you already have customers start a referral program, that's how you'll get like the highest intent people to your website.
Speaker 2: 04:03 Similar to I hear a ton about different types of referral programs. What are some of the things and referral problems you've seen that really work well?
Speaker 3: 04:11 Yeah. So surprisingly people are not as motivated to referred friends when you pay them as much as they are to offer something of value to their friend. So people in when, when they're socially interacting with friends, they want to kind of be able to gift them something. So if you can create that vibe, then you're, your referral program will likely perform better.
Speaker 2: 04:40 I've seen that they get a discount and you get a discount at the same time by offering a coupon code like that.
Speaker 3: 04:51 Yeah, definitely. Um, and that works better than just having you get a discount and nothing for your friend. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I think, um, referral programs can be really difficult to track if you are going to implement one. I recommend using a tool I've used ambassador in the past. There's a lot of different tools you could use but definitely can get really hairy if you don't get super organized with your tracking links and things. So I'm tracking can become a nightmare. But um, yeah, along the same lines of, of high intent channels, I think affiliate programs with you can get like bloggers and influencers mentioning your product and sending traffic. That's also a great way to get like really trustworthy people doing the selling for you kind of thing. So those are high intent and then, you know, if you're looking at paid channels, if you have a budget and you're trying to figure out, you know, do I spend money on Google ads or do I spend money on facebook or, or whatever. Um, again, like think about intent, you know, someone who is searching a specific keyword related to your business as far higher intent than someone who's just browsing through facebook looking their friends' photos. Right? So a while facebook is not some channel for a lot of things. I would if there is search volume related to your product, then I would always recommend starting with intense is highest, which would be on google ads
Speaker 2: 06:13 in Google ads seem to be the holy grail, but at the same time it's one most confusing things for most marketers. Everyone seems to kind of first of all go to facebook. It's easier to work with and things as you've worked inside of the Google ad network and the platform. What are some of the things that you've seen that work really well for a person who's just trying to kind of get the feet wet with Google? Where would you tell them that they should start?
Speaker 3: 06:35 Yeah. I always start with like your branded keywords that someone literally searches for the name of your brand. You want to be there and then your competitors' keywords. So the names of your competitors, you want to be there too. That's content, lowest hanging fruit. Those people are already well educated, either about the name of your business or the name of your competitors. And so that's always the best place to start. And from there it's really just like careful testing. But again, thinking about when you're thinking about keywords like which of these keywords, long tail keywords are gonna be customers who have already thought very deeply about this and um, and if you are going to go higher funnel, more broad keywords, then you're likely going to want to serve content that's going to act as a funnel to your adapt to your purchase.
Speaker 2: 07:32 So, speaking of funnels, I know you're in the process of creating your own and your first click funnels here, expert secrets. When you start thinking about a funnel, especially, you just made the mention as far as you know, top of the funnel, high end funnel. Explain to people exactly what that means.
Speaker 3: 07:48 So I think people, people are at different stages of their purchase journey. And when I think about the top of the funnel, I think about the beginning of that journey, maybe someone doesn't know that they need your product. And so at the top of the funnel, people are doing their initial research, if you can create content that captured them at that stage and then you can become the teacher, the person who's being the educator, you can kind of like walk them down the funnel down to purchase product. Um, so basically people that are high in the funnel may not be super high intense quite yet. And as they get lower into the funnel, their intent becomes higher and higher and conserve them different types of content. So as they're deeper in the funnel, it becomes maybe not as much educational content, more not as broad educational concept, but it gets more narrow into your product. So you can serve them content that maybe shows a product walkthrough of your product or testimonials of people who purchase your products. And so there's kind of this sequential messaging that happens as someone goes from top of funnel.
Speaker 2: 08:54 I love, I had this conversation with
Speaker 3: 08:56 my son earlier this morning. He's doing some affiliate marketing for me inside of click funnels and I would sit there, I sit there talking to him about it and he's like, you had. It's really hard to get someone just to take a free trial of clickfunnels, and I'm like, yeah, you're right. Especially if they don't even know what a funnel is. I said, we're in the process right now of creating this whole idea as far as the death of the website and trying to help a lot of local business owners who think, Gosh, all I need is a website to help them understand that really websites are dying. They're not already getting some industries and really how a funnel works and so if you start with funnel jargon, people are going to go, I don't even know what a funnel is, what are you talking about it?
Speaker 3: 09:34 So I love that idea. I just appreciate just kind of hitting home as far as where in that actual funnel are they top of the funnel, mid funnel, bottom of the funnel, and it totally changes the experience as well as the conversation that you're having with them. So I appreciate your going through that. Totally. That's so funny that you say that about the websites because we talked with marketing part talks a lot of, um, people that are just getting started and they have this website now. Like I have this amazing website, I to my website that is just not how it works. There's so much more intention that goes as a marketer, I never send traffic to a website, never ever. So as a marketer, I'm always sending traffic to landing pages that are specifically pushing people down a funnel, a very specific funnel. They have a very specific call to action, just one button on a page. And so websites that have menus with lots of different options, it's like you're, um, you're spending money to get traffic to that page and then you're losing people. You're giving them a million different places to click options and you're not helping them get through the funnel.
Speaker 2: 10:37 I appreciate that. Well, here we've started to do, I'd like to kind of segway into one of the things I'm most excited about and that's this whole marketing data type of stuff that you'd love to geek out on and I know you've got kind of an awkward the end for those people want to stick around as far as a kind of exact how they can track some of this data. So tell me what, what are the things that you're paying attention to in a marketing funnel? What are the metrics that you're following? What's most important?
Speaker 3: 11:00 Alright, well the first thing I want to say is that this stuff is really hard. Um,
Speaker 2: 11:08 wait, all of my listeners right there, they're gone.
Speaker 3: 11:10 Well, no, because I was a lovely side. Thought it was really hard and I understand why you think it is hard because I used to have a really hard time with it. I was really overwhelmed. Is that started out as a marketer? I was like, okay, um, you want me to build a weekly report showing how our marketing campaigns are doing simple enough. Right. Little do I realized that that actually involves logging into facebook and export and all the data logging into google, linkedin email tool, looking at our down revenue and like pulling all this data together takes hours because you've done loggins. These platforms export all the data. Then maybe you import them into a Google spreadsheet or excel. Then you have another tab where you may be creating a dashboard and you're using formulas and you're trying to map the data all together and hopefully your formulas are right and hopefully and then even at that point you just have like a big sheet of numbers and then you're going to have to present these numbers of people who are going to want to make sense of them.
Speaker 3: 12:12 So they should probably be in charge now. It needs to be pretty in this whole thing. I swear like it used to take me two to three days of my week to prepare for the meeting with a meeting with our CEO just to be able to like pull, pull the numbers together, make them pretty enough for other people to understand. But also for me to understand like not only like putting the data together, but then so do the analytics and figure out the insights and figure out what's not going well and what needs to change. Just like the whole thing. It's so tedious. It is so time consuming and I can promise you that there is a marketer at every single company doing this, like somebody is doing this. And I was doing this annually about six months ago. I left my job, my last company, and I wanted to work at a marketing company, some kind of marketing tool that was helping marketers because I love thinking about marketing.
Speaker 3: 13:10 I wanted to market to marketers and this is all very meta, but I've heard about this company called it provato that was looking for a head of marketing. And it was a tool that basically automated that whole process that I was pretty miserable over. Um, so basically they just sink into all the different platforms like facebook and Google ads and all your crm and all the things. And then it's just like slurps up the data into one place where it just lifts in real time all the time. So you can check on any ad, any campaign across any platform in one place or you can send it to your visualization tool. So the Google data studio or tableau or looker, wherever you want to visualize it, you just have this real time reporting. So you never ever have to like do that crappy stuff that all of us marketers are wasting time that ever again.
Speaker 3: 14:03 Um, yeah. And so, and so that's, that's what my mission is now, to kind of spread the word that this is an option because I certainly didn't know it was. And um, you know, as a marketer and my favorite part is the strategy part. It's the thinking about using the tests and new ideas to try and optimizing what's working and don't want to be in spreadsheets all day. Just getting started. What are some of the most important metrics they should be paying attention to? I think a lot of times I see people making the mistake of looking at the wrong metrics. And so this is definitely an important question.
Speaker 3: 14:43 It can be easy as a marketer get excited about top of the funnel metrics. Here we go. Talking about funnel signups, right? So at my last job I was at a company called realty shares and it was a real estate investing platform online and so I was getting were doing google, Google ads and we were running ads to the keyword real estate crowd funding, which is what it's called when you invest in real estate online, not everyone knows what the word real estate crowd funding is. So the people who have typed that in have very high intent, right? And those people would convert and they would the time paying investors in great customers. And so I wanted to expand from there and try and see if it worked and follow more people. So I tested out real estate investing as a keyword, which seems like a logical next step, real estate investing. And we tested it and while we were getting tons of signups for really cheap, this was awesome. I'm like, great, let's spend more money here. A couple months later I realized none of the people that signed up from the keyword real estate investing ever made an investment
Speaker 3: 15:57 and so it's really easy to get excited by like sign up metrics, but what actually matters is like actual customers, actual paying customers, if none of those people become paying customers and that's actually not a good place to be spending money, so to kind of just like hold your excitement until you watch people go through the funnel and the different companies, different length of time, which can be challenging as a marketer to wait like a couple months to see if that thing works before you spend more money on it, but it's really about just careful testing and being able to see data from, from sign up all the way through to revenue and being able to tie that back. That revenue back to the child came from
Speaker 2: 16:41 kind of what you're talking about there. The most important thing I always look at is what's that cost to acquire a customer? A paying customer versus the sign sign ups are great, but you can have a whole bunch of people sign up if no one take their credit card out. They are very, very little value to you or to them. So I always look as far as what's that cost to acquire the customer, what's obviously the average cart value. If we can kind of look at that where we get in at least inside of a funnel where the average cart value, if I can get the average car value to be equal to the cost to acquire customer base, getting customers for free and then I send them up the sales ladder from there. So
Speaker 3: 17:16 keeping track, you know the customers signed up within a channel and that have gone on to make a purchase and you can have that revenue. You can just take that revenue number and divided by the number of signups that you got. And now you have your legs allowable cost per acquisition for a, for a signup. And so if you go above that, you're know you're losing money and if you go below that, you know you're making money. So
Speaker 2: 17:44 can you repeat that Formula One more time just for those people are listening to, they understand because I think it's a real important number to. To track.
Speaker 3: 17:49 Yeah. So I call the allowable the allowable cost per acquisition for a signup for someone that signed up. So within a given channel, if you keep track of, say for example your, your check, looking at facebook as a channel, you know that you got x number of signups on facebook and then he got y number of customers that actually paid and then you have a certain number of revenue. So if you take that revenue number, how much you made from people that you acquired on facebook and then you divide it by the number of signups that you got at the very start. Then you have this number that I like to call the allowable and that's kind of like your breakeven cost for acquisition, for facebook, for this specific channel, so that can rate. That can vary from channel to channel. You might have a different allowable cost per acquisition on facebook. Then you have google ads and this is really, really important when, when you're optimizing for channel two to realize that that's different. So on facebook you'll have this number and this is your allowable cost per acquisition and you want to stay below it because it's what soon as you start going, oh, if you're an addict, you're a even, that means like the, the amount that you're spending and getting
Speaker 3: 19:10 on facebook is the same and if you're over it then you're losing money on facebook and if you're under it then,
Speaker 2: 19:16 then you're awesome. So just running some numbers here. If I have 100 people sign up and they'll say 10 of those buy and it's a turtle a product. So it's a $2,000 total. So I've got basically 2000 bucks I made and divide that by 100. In other words, it means I could basically spend up to 20 bucks for a signup. That sound right. And so I think it's important for people who are listening to understand. We talked so much about what's my cost to acquire the customer? Well, that cost to acquire a customer. It could be 200 bucks because that's what they're paying me, but if it actually costs you that sign up as a 10th of that, I think that's an important number to kind of track and pay attention to. So I appreciate to appreciate you kind of go through there.
Speaker 3: 19:58 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: 19:59 Well Haley, I know we're kind of get close to wrapping things up here where, where can people get more information on tracking this kind of stuff?
Speaker 3: 20:06 Yeah. So I actually need a blank template just for you guys who are listening, if you want to look at what my marketing dashboard looks like. Um, before I automated that. So this is when I go into Google sheets and I make all these different tabs so that I can see what's happening from a marketing perspective weekly, daily, monthly, yearly. Like how I figured out my goals. I have all these different tabs in a google sheet and I kind of took out all the data and made it blank for you in case you want to use it yourself. That's what I, when I do my marketing data manually, that's what it looks like. Do you want to automate? It can help you there, but if you just want this Google spreadsheet, definitely take a and download it for yourself. You can access it at that io slash podcast. You want spelling Pramada for us? Yes, I am t r o v a d o Dot io slash podcast. It's so funny. I had this terrible time and spelling allowed senior. I'm the table so that I. You
Speaker 2: 21:16 did a great job spelling for it, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: 21:18 Yeah.
Speaker 2: 21:21 Well, let any last remarks here before we got to wrap things up.
Speaker 3: 21:25 Um, let's see. Follow or connect with me on linkedin. I'd love to, uh, to chat there. That's probably the best place. My name is Haley Friedman, so you can find me on there.
Speaker 2: 21:36 Awesome. Well, Haley, thanks so much. I appreciate your time and appreciate all that you guys are doing to push marketing forward. So thank you. Thank you. This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: 21:45 Hey everybody, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me where I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get the next few $100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, I only just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and be more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if people would like me to interview. I'm more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you so I can go to itunes rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.